Massive X Preset Handling Question

[swilow11]

crap preset browser, shows quality of NI

You judge a synth by its preset browser and not sound quality? Okay then.

[swilow11]

Exactly - I have been saying this for years, the ultimate success of any plugin synth is dependent on the cultivation of a thriving community of users sharing and creating patches and using it to make music (the 2 things tend to go hand in hand) That worked so well for Massive and for synths like Serum but for Massive X NI have stifled the user community and basically shot themselves in the foot.

Totally. It's capable of some nice sounds but, there's zero incentive for a synth programmer like me to make any sounds for it because it's godawful patch management system.

But surely the synth was built for people to make music with, right? And it does that minor thing really well.

Totally agreed comments re: LFOs being kinda weird, the performers being fiddly to program, preset browser being utterly rudimentary- but beyond that, it has great modularity, audio rate modulation everywhere which sounds nicer than nearly every other synth, great filters (but only one!) Including a wonderful comb filter to use with the exciter envelope, feedback, the best FX of any synth I've used, all backed by lush smooth sounding oscillators. I actually really like not being able to import the thousands of wavetables I've got- this limitation boosts creativity immensely. My main complaint with it is its high CPU usage, but rendering out (and perhaps importing as a wavetable into something like Hive2 or Serum) basically negates that. I don't use Massive X all the time but when I do use it, I always find it challenging and a boost to creativity.

[aMUSEd]

But surely the synth was built for people to make music with, right? And it does that minor thing really well.

Yes of course but for me the reason I mainly use synths and not say, a banjo, is I like to create new sounds as an integral part of that process of making music, which I want to save to be able to come back to, and therefore also want to keep organised. I don't want to use just the ones supplied by NI. I also make and share sounds for a wide variety of plugins so keeping them organised into specific folders and banks is important.

I appreciate the work of other artists and do also buy some third party content, so also want to keep my content separate from theirs. However at the moment everything that is not official NI content gets combined into just one long 'user' list, regardless of whether it is actually user created or third party content. If I was a commercial sound designer selling patches I would find it a complete turn off if those patches were to just disappear in a long list of user presets and not be findable as a distinct bank and I do know some SD companies who have said as much.

[pdxindy]

I actually really like not being able to import the thousands of wavetables I've got- this limitation boosts creativity immensely.

To each their own... I don't have thousands of wavetables. And if MX had wavetable import, (and I still used the synth), I would import one or two here and there when I want a specific result.

Massive X has enough functional limitations that there are too many cases where I would have to use another synth to accomplish my desired task. I didn't want to invest my time in a synth that dead-ended as often as it does. That's why I uninstalled it and since it has been out for years with very little development, I don't expect it to ever become a synth I would use regularly. There are lots of great sounding synths these days.

[swilow11]

I actually really like not being able to import the thousands of wavetables I've got- this limitation boosts creativity immensely.

To each their own... I don't have thousands of wavetables. And if MX had wavetable import, (and I still used the synth), I would import one or two here and there when I want a specific result.

Massive X has enough functional limitations that there are too many cases where I would have to use another synth to accomplish my desired task. I didn't want to invest my time in a synth that dead-ended as often as it does. That's why I uninstalled it and since it has been out for years with very little development, I don't expect it to ever become a synth I would use regularly. There are lots of great sounding synths these days.

Yes, true. Like I said, I don't reach for it all the time but it has some qualities that I've grown to appreciate- I use FM synthesis a lot and Massive X does this better than nearly anything else. Plus stuff like comb filter physical modelling stuff- it's just great at that. You're correct that it has been underdeveloped and possibly abandoned, which is a huge shame as it has immense potential. The modular aspect is quite unique- using an excited comb filter as an FM source makes some sounds that are truly unusual and unique (also often terrible but there is interesting potential there).

NI were perhaps foolish to call it "Massive X" because it's not really similar to Massive, and has possibly been compared unfavourably to it as a result.

Curious what dead ends you've encountered with it.

[pdxindy]

Curious what dead ends you've encountered with it.

By dead end I meant if I am working on a sound, and decide I want to do something and cannot. So for example, if I am making a pluck sound I like and decide I want to play it using MPE, MX cannot do that so I have to switch to a different synth. Same with microtuning. Same with being able to modulate certain notes and not others. Etc.

All that stuff could be worked around using multiple instances of MX, but that is tedious compared to how fast and elegant it is in other synths these days.

It's also annoying that parameters cannot be modulated directly and it has no midi learn. On any of my other synths, I can map say the Amp Env ADSR to a midi controller so I can adjust it as I am playing/recording. This isn't possible in MX. What one can do is map the MX Macros to the Amp Env and then map ones controller to the macros. Okay, except then I want to change presets... then the mapping is gone.

Of course my midi controller is still mapped to the macros, but the macros change with every preset. So if I want to set up my midi controller to globally control the Amp Env, I have to save that for every freakin preset with MX. No thanks...

I waited like 3 years to see if they actively developed the synth. Obviously they didn't and now it's been over 5 years. That's why I finally uninstalled it. It has plenty of sonic potential and as you point out, does some things really well. If someone likes using it, great. Too many gotchas for me, especially when I have more top notch synthesis available at my fingertips than I ever need.

[audiouser720]

I don’t know man. I mean I do appreciate all the issues people are raising with MX, but to me it’s just the best sounding vsti ever made. I also have no issues with the UI, in fact I am flying when noodling around. I don’t care about presets at all, but that’s just me. I have not put my hands on another vsti that sounds this good and I mainly use it for bread and butter analogue-ish sounds

[abstractdolphin]

Saddest thing about massive X is I think it's obvious they intended to update it with new modules, like different modulation sources, effects, or even oscillators (hence the selectable osc mods in the routing page). Would have been phenomenal but I guess too close to what they have with reaktor anyway which is probably why they ditched it.

[audiouser720]

What I wish Massive X had is all the Reaktor Blocks implemented as selectable modules just like you described above. The oscillators and the filters at least, but then MX wouldn’t be just a wavetable synth anymore, but it would be cool

[Nonastrobe]

I got Massive X for like 40 bucks but I never go to use it. It LOOKS cool but it just seems like it’ll never reach the popularity Massive once had. I’m sure you can make some great sounds with it but I rarely ever reach for it, even compared to the original Massive. I wish Massive X didn’t become the much less popular younger brother but that seems it’s how it is. Massive gives me impressive monster bass sounds, yet Massive X just seems so clunky. Maybe I just haven’t given it the time of day though.

[audiouser720]

That fact that it’s not as popular as OG massive, makes it even more appealing to me

[Dalle]

Saddest thing about massive X is I think it's obvious they intended to update it with new modules, like different modulation sources, effects, or even oscillators

Yep. You can see a stepper LFO in this teaser from six years ago but they never added it.

[_leras]

Saddest thing about massive X is I think it's obvious they intended to update it with new modules, like different modulation sources, effects, or even oscillators

Yep. You can see a stepper LFO in this teaser from six years ago but they never added it.

Now that is a bit gutting. The LFOs themselves are also pretty limited given how much space they take up.

I agree with most of the complaints here. NI could have done it so much better. The browser especially makes it hard to even explore the very diverse set of sounds it can make.

I seem to be using it more and more though. Sometimes it doesn't work for me sound wise, but often I get great things out of it. Sonically it's just solid and great sounding. I don't mind that the macros need to be mapped for every new sound, to me it makes each sound more instrument like with it's own specific limitations.

[audiouser720]

Saddest thing about massive X is I think it's obvious they intended to update it with new modules, like different modulation sources, effects, or even oscillators

Yep. You can see a stepper LFO in this teaser from six years ago but they never added it.

Now that is a bit gutting. The LFOs themselves are also pretty limited given how much space they take up.

I agree with most of the complaints here. NI could have done it so much better. The browser especially makes it hard to even explore the very diverse set of sounds it can make.

I seem to be using it more and more though. Sometimes it doesn't work for me sound wise, but often I get great things out of it. Sonically it's just solid and great sounding. I don't mind that the macros need to be mapped for every new sound, to me it makes each sound more instrument like with it's own specific limitations.

It's rare that it doesn't work for me sound wise, but maybe because I tend to do the same(ish) thing with it most of the time. I sometimes skip it for UAD Opal. I don't know if that one sounds more analogue, or just feels like it because of the wood.

[Greenstorm33]

Saddest thing about massive X is I think it's obvious they intended to update it with new modules, like different modulation sources, effects, or even oscillators (hence the selectable osc mods in the routing page). Would have been phenomenal but I guess too close to what they have with reaktor anyway which is probably why they ditched it.

This part of their marketing spiel on release (not modularity specifically, but something about "keeping up with the new styles that the synth inspires" or something). Of course, any mentions of updates are long gone from the website at this point.