One DAW as your only environment/instrument(s)?

[Trensharo]

Have both on my MBP and I'm not really seeing it as an alternative.

Maybe if you only use them as a ROMpler, but Omnisphere has like 4x the patches that Alchemy has.

[idontpost]

We're back to the status quo, dude.

You'll probably respond that you blocked me again etc. don't care, I'm not going to watch other people have issues with you and not comment

Quoting myself here, 100% predictable
I'm not interested in blocking people because to me that's too close to fascist logic. Plus the only reason I commented on his dogging of someone else's DAW choice was, that's exactly the reason he blocked me in the first place! He couldn't handle that I like DP, and flipped out when I didn't agree with him that it's a POS etc. This is why I said consider the source when getting annoyed or frustrated with someones opinion, like assholes everyone has one, and some people maybe talk out of... *

just forwarding...

[machinesworking]

We're back to the status quo, dude.

You'll probably respond that you blocked me again etc. don't care, I'm not going to watch other people have issues with you and not comment

Quoting myself here, 100% predictable
I'm not interested in blocking people because to me that's too close to fascist logic. Plus the only reason I commented on his dogging of someone else's DAW choice was, that's exactly the reason he blocked me in the first place! He couldn't handle that I like DP, and flipped out when I didn't agree with him that it's a POS etc. This is why I said consider the source when getting annoyed or frustrated with someones opinion, like assholes everyone has one, and some people maybe talk out of... *

just forwarding...

Oh look, an actual troll. Whose sock puppet are you?

[Trensharo]

I didn't block you "again."

I simply showed your post and then replied to it.

You were never removed from block.

Last time.

And people wonder why I have that signature.

This is the kind of B.S. I'm referring to. This person trolls me, and then bitches about me not taking them off of block and refusing to continue to dialog with them after having them blocked for almost 2 years (EDIT: Actually, over 2 years) while they spammed me with replies in countless threads that I have not replied to.

I have this person blocked on 3 forums.

Go and live the rest of your life, dude. I am not your priority, and this is not the topic.

I block people because if you clap I will clap back, and I'd rather not subject other posters on this forum to that level of engagement. If you had a problem and were "reasonable," you could have simply messaged me and we could have had it out there - holding nothing back.

You can get as ANTIFA as you want on these forums, but this is how it's going to be with me.

The machines are working, but apparently your brain is not.

[machinesworking]

Lol I troll you? It's not any mystery who Idontpost is with his single post and account made the same day.

The whole point I thought of blocking someone is to not read their replies to you, to not engage, but you're patently incapable of doing that, so you have your sig, and your sock puppet accounts, and you still can't help but try to get in the last word.

I've replied to maybe 4 or 5 of your posts since our argument, because you've spammed threads with long winded debates that are up for grabs. You blocking someone in no way means your comments are verboten from judgment, that's the funny part to me, it's supposed to protect you from engaging in debate, but really it's more about control, and why your signature says a lot about who you are as a person.

[pdxindy]

But in terms of offering everything you need out of the box in one package, I still think Ableton Live Suite is the superior package.

Ableton Live Suite doesn't have native pitch correction
Live doesn't support Surround Sound
Live's video support is weak. Logic is much better.
Live has nothing like Logic's Step Sequencer
Live has nothing like Logic's Drummer
Logic also supports Scoring and Dolby Atmos.

Of course if none of those things are requirements, then Live may be fine for someone.

[machinesworking]

Ableton Live Suite doesn't have native pitch correction
Live doesn't support Surround Sound
Live's video support is weak. Logic is much better.
Live has nothing like Logic's Step Sequencer
Live has nothing like Logic's Drummer
Logic also supports Scoring and Dolby Atmos.

Of course if none of those things are requirements, then Live may be fine for someone.

Not to mention:
- Articulation mapping,
- MIDI support for NRPNs and SysEx not handled through Max, and in general advanced MIDI features.
- VCA faders
- in terms of audio comping superior support for comping things like drumsets with multiple tracks.
- a much more advanced arrangement page than Live.
- plus Logics new tempo mapping of MIDI and audio that wasn't played to a click track.

If we're talking Clips and Session View then only Bitwig is anywhere near close, but Live is hardly a match in terms of linear arrangement, Logic beats it by a mile. People love K.I.S.S. type WYSIWYG interfaces though.

[Trensharo]

But in terms of offering everything you need out of the box in one package, I still think Ableton Live Suite is the superior package.

Ableton Live Suite doesn't have native pitch correction
Live doesn't support Surround Sound
Live's video support is weak. Logic is much better.
Live has nothing like Logic's Step Sequencer
Live has nothing like Logic's Drummer
Logic also supports Scoring and Dolby Atmos.

Of course if none of those things are requirements, then Live may be fine for someone.

Touche.

I mean we could get into things like Arranger Organization, Automation, Controller Support, etc. but my initial post was a reply... not a thesis.

I don't main either of these DAWs, so it's not like I have skin in the game

I still think Live Suite has the best package if we're talking about buying "One DAW as your only environment/instrument(s)," which is actually what the OP is about.

I don't even use Expression Maps in Cubase. A lot of libraries do not have balanced keyswitched patches, so it creates automation hell. I use an articulation per track in my template and the entire template is pre-balanced and largely pre-mixed (as far as the orchestral instruments are concerned) with the plug-ins and instruments disabled for fast loading. There is one bar before the start for Automation to set things. Press Play fron the beginning, and the entire orchestra is balanced.

Most producers probably prefer to program their own drums, but you did list Mastering Assistant as a selling point. So, maybe you just like that kind of automation...

Logic Pro has a 999 Instrument Track Limitation, so it's not usable with very large orchestral templates, anyways. Similar issue to other DAWs like Pro Tools (and Samplitude, etc.). I could not fit my [Cubase Pro] Orchestral Template in a single Logic Pro Project.

It's why so many composers are on Cubase. That's why when I was looking for alternatives, I tried Digital Performer instead.

Pitch Correction doesn't matter to me since DAW native pitch correction tends to be monophonic, so I'd need Melodyne, anyways. The crucial thing that Live is missing, is the ARA2 Support to enable that workflow.

I still haven't used Atmos for anything, and I wonder how many people who mention it have. It's nice it's there, but it's not quite "there yet" in terms of market demand. I would contract that work out to someone with an actual room for it, anyways. I make enough money to afford that, but I'm not building an Atmos setup in my studio. It's cheaper to pay someone to do it (much cheaper).

Most people who would consider Live are likely beyond that stuff. If they needed that, I would never recommend it to them. Waste of time, and waste of money on their part.

[VOODOO U]

Live has nothing like Logic's Step Sequencer

Are you telling me you can't do something equal or better getting your hands dirty with M4L?

[VOODOO U]

Same with surround sound. Couldn't M4L be used to support surround sound?

[pdxindy]

Live has nothing like Logic's Step Sequencer

Are you telling me you can't do something equal or better getting your hands dirty with M4L?

That is exactly what I am saying... Any M4L sequencers are not integrated into the timeline like the Logic Pro Step Sequencer is.

[pdxindy]

Same with surround sound. Couldn't M4L be used to support surround sound?

Janky workaround instead of having it built into the DAW.

[elxsound]

This is when it becomes less fun.

It can't be what 'you' use, but there must be a best and someone is going to declare they know what best!

It was inevitable.

If I were a Hip Hop Producer, I would choose Logic Pro over Cubase any day of the week. The Step Sequencer is worth it, alone. That is not something you can just bolt onto Cubase. I would go with Logic, and I wouldn't ever look back. Sample Alchemy is also really good, since in the OP's scenario we can't bolt on stuff like Waves CR8

Not even Studio One's Pattern Editor really competes with Logic's Step Sequencer. It's the best on the market.

But in terms of offering everything you need out of the box in one package, I still think Ableton Live Suite is the superior package. I think Logic Pro is a bit overrated in that aspect, especially when you juxtapose the quality of some of their synths and plug-ins against what Ableton has on offer; as well as the number and quality of presets offered for them... Some of Logic's synths, you're be lucky to find more than 2 dozen presets for them in the package; and a few have much less than that.

Yeah, I don’t care about if I were this or I were that. I don’t even care what you use.

Sure it’s not as fun to debate, but then you’d have to find debating about random shit on the internet to find it fun in the first place.

[VOODOO U]

Same with surround sound. Couldn't M4L be used to support surround sound?

Janky workaround instead of having it built into the DAW.

Point is Live can support surround sound.

Live has nothing like Logic's Step Sequencer

Are you telling me you can't do something equal or better getting your hands dirty with M4L?

That is exactly what I am saying... Any M4L sequencers are not integrated into the timeline like the Logic Pro Step Sequencer is.

Ok so Live's step sequencer(s) workflow is different from Logic but feature wise one can match Logic or even come up with something better using M4L. If I am understanding correctly.

[pdxindy]

Point is Live can support surround sound.

It doesn't...

Anyway, the thread is asking people's choice. I chose Bitwig and it doesn't come close to Logic and it's range of features. If you want to choose Live go ahead. No need to twist yourself into a pretzel to somehow claim it does stuff it doesn't.