Bye bye VST2

[jens]

Yeah, I have been wondering about that for years.

Our lawyer says, §1 limits the scope to host and plug-in development, such that "prior agreements" refer to agreements within that scope.

it’s a fair point and a reasonable assumption. But clause 1.1 isn’t exactly clear and if the phrase “any and all” doesn’t actually mean any and all, why is it there?

I can’t make my mind up whether it’s straight-up incompetence or whether the lawyers have told the pointed-headed boss responsible for this snafu they can’t make what the boss wants explicit without rendering the contract open to an easy legal challenge from a competitor so they just resorted to pettifogging in the hope it would result in the desired effect by making enough plug-in developers nervous enough about the situation. in doing so they might have written a contract that would fall apart in front of a judge anyway (but probably won’t get there because a challenger would need deep pockets).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

[ChristianH1]

FL Studio 21.3 is currently in beta and will add CLAP support.
https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=323698

[RunBeerRun]

I think we need better people in charge who don't bend with the wind every 2 seconds.

[Audiority]

Meaning?

[Burillo]

Meaning he wants DX plugins back

[planet_b]

With VST2 the presets are listed in the plugin's main device window, but VST3 presets show up in the Live browser, as a subfolder of the plugin. You need to click "hotswap" on the device to load a preset after you've located it in the main browser.

Hopefully Ableton would implement working system for VST3 presets, as in it's current state it's pretty inconvenient, especially with Live 12. As you really need to hop through unnecessary hoops to access them. This is why some prefer to use VST2 version of the plugins.

Can you say more about what the issue in Live 12 is please. I am not aware of this and have just started to migrate to VST3. Thanks.

[Kypresso]

Meaning he wants DX plugins back

I believe they still work in Reaper.

[teilo]

Hi guys,

looks like Steinberg terminated all previous agreements that will allow us developers to build VST2 plugins. The new agreement is here:

Luca, have you received written notice from Steinberg that the previous agreements are terminated, according to clause 9.4?

[SHall1000]

With VST2 the presets are listed in the plugin's main device window, but VST3 presets show up in the Live browser, as a subfolder of the plugin. You need to click "hotswap" on the device to load a preset after you've located it in the main browser.

Hopefully Ableton would implement working system for VST3 presets, as in it's current state it's pretty inconvenient, especially with Live 12. As you really need to hop through unnecessary hoops to access them. This is why some prefer to use VST2 version of the plugins.

Can you say more about what the issue in Live 12 is please. I am not aware of this and have just started to migrate to VST3. Thanks.

Presumably this is only important if the plug-in doesn’t have its own in built preset management system?

[Audiority]

Hi guys,

looks like Steinberg terminated all previous agreements that will allow us developers to build VST2 plugins. The new agreement is here:

Luca, have you received written notice from Steinberg that the previous agreements are terminated, according to clause 9.4?

From my understanding, that's implicit while using their latest SDK versions.

[phankiejankie303]

Pretty bad news at least for me. The (now discontinued) Automap software by Novation works fine here with VST2 plugins but refuses to work with VST3 ones... and I really like my automapped bread and butter plugins. It allows me to make decisions more with my ears and less with my eyes. Plus the hands on approach is a always pleasure when available.

[vanerio]

Pretty bad news at least for me. The (now discontinued) Automap software by Novation works fine here with VST2 plugins but refuses to work with VST3 ones... and I really like my automapped bread and butter plugins. It allows me to make decisions more with my ears and less with my eyes. Plus the hands on approach is a always pleasure when available.

I'm sorry for the off topic, I experienced this as a betrayal of novation (not to update Automap, at least to be compatible with the new processors), reason why I will never buy a product from them. I don't want more plastic bricks.

[Jac459]

Pretty bad news at least for me. The (now discontinued) Automap software by Novation works fine here with VST2 plugins but refuses to work with VST3 ones... and I really like my automapped bread and butter plugins. It allows me to make decisions more with my ears and less with my eyes. Plus the hands on approach is a always pleasure when available.

I'm sorry for the off topic, I experienced this as a betrayal of novation (not to update Automap, at least to be compatible with the new processors), reason why I will never buy a product from them. I don't want more plastic bricks.

It is more Steinberg's fault than novation one in my view here...

That's why we need open source format like CLAP.

Either editors take a contingency on the price in order to have long term support of changing formats. Either they let die.
I want none of these options.

That's why I try to choose CLAP plugins first.

[vanerio]

Pretty bad news at least for me. The (now discontinued) Automap software by Novation works fine here with VST2 plugins but refuses to work with VST3 ones... and I really like my automapped bread and butter plugins. It allows me to make decisions more with my ears and less with my eyes. Plus the hands on approach is a always pleasure when available.

I'm sorry for the off topic, I experienced this as a betrayal of novation (not to update Automap, at least to be compatible with the new processors), reason why I will never buy a product from them. I don't want more plastic bricks.

It is more Steinberg's fault than novation one in my view here...

That's why we need open source format like CLAP.

Either editors take a contingency on the price in order to have long term support of changing formats. Either they let die.
I want none of these options.

That's why I try to choose CLAP plugins first.

Not in this case. Novation didn´t even update to 64 bits...

[jinxtigr]

But doesn't any of this only apply if you sign a new license agreement with Steinberg? Are you forced to do that or could you just work with the one you already have? What changed in the SDK as reasons to update?

Yup, that's my understanding. I've been VST2-only for years because they once did exactly this, so I'm kind of like 'well nothing new to see here!'. I also have the impression that the licensing is for CLOSED source development and you can release VST3 under the GPL3 without issue… except then people can take anything you have, so that's why the GPL works as a parallel open source licensing path.

If I was to put out VST3s, it would have to be GPL3 rather than the MIT licensing I usually use, so my regular stuff is more widely 'usable' but all the VST3 stuff would be viral free software, much less legally friendly to adapt and use. And my right to put out anything closed under VST3 is nil, as I won't accept such an agreement. Like I've said, I continue to put out retro AUs as triple binaries (same with the VSTs, not sure if it matters?) of 64 bit, 32 bit and PPC. Like G3s, G4s: real antiques. I support those, so the idea of abandoning all the legacy VST2 hosts out there (often, paid commercial software people have invested into!) is really a nonstarter.