The curse of the drum set in modern music

[Jafo]

Different meters (with apologies to nuffink!) -- 3/4, 5/4 (my fave), and even 7/8 have all been successfully used in popular music. (Waltzes, "Take 5" or Coltrane's version of "My Favorite Things", or Zep's "The Crunge", respectively.)

Or you could use combination meters: (3+4)/4 with alternating beats per bar. ("Money! You get a good job wiht more pay and you're OK.")

Polyrhythms may be a better choice. Play two rhythms on different instruments, say 6/8 and 3/4:

pulses / / / / / /
6/8 1 . . 2 . .
3/4 1 . 2 . 3 .

And there's no reason the rhythms have to coincide in a small number of bars -- 5/4 vs. 6/8 can be hypnotic.

Prepared piano would be a great way to experiment with altering the kit.

Or perhaps one could use tones in a riff as "percussion" with variants.

Serialism, perhaps? I'm working on a series of parts of 3, 4, and 5 bars played simultaneously, with rather good results.

[Jafo]

Drums are not meant for color ,they are meant for hitting you in the chest at it's resonant frequency.60 Hz.Why do people go wild in clubs and dig music that you would cringe at.

Even we classical snobs get this!

[respirator]

Different meters ... have all been successfully used in popular music.

Different meters are cool (Soundgardens SuperUnknown is another great example). But it is still the exception. It is an exception to the point that we notice when somethings not in 4/4. The 600-years white guys that where referred to earlier at least had a more sophisticated sence of meters. As do much "ethnic" (hate the term) music (that has developed without the drum set - not to blame the drum set for the 4/4 tyranny ... exactly).

It takes a hell of a drummer to do something polyrythmic, but only two average musicians clapping

[fateamenabletochange]

Bach knew this,jafo,he just loved a big organ,shake up the church with some big power chords,so the place would shake,literally.

[Jafo]

Bach knew this,jafo,he just loved a big organ,shake up the church with some big power chords,so the place would shake,literally.

Yeah, man, totally! Just as heavy as a Marshall set on stun. My wife was an organist for a while, and I used to just love being in the same room. Utterly fantastic!

[insaneacyde]

Seriously: I'm trying to make a point by over-simplifying. I know that the world is much more complicated (thank god, even if he's a woman). But still. Listen to the radio. Bum-cha-Bum-cha.

um, I think I got you wrong there sorry.

Well man, radio = shit (at least in my country) nothing worth a rats ball hair ever gets played on "air". I would never have heard of Tool or even Dave Mathews if I listened to South African radio.

It's really terrible over here. Yet we have amazing bands and artists. our own Kwaito style doesn't even make it to popular radio, and that's pretty big in other countries!

You are always going to have to search hard for music that makes an effort to reach you. Kinda like finding a good pair of shoes. It's not the drums fault though, it's lack of basic rythm skills most "composers" have in popular music.

There is simply no desire to push the envelope and listeners of popular music have about as much appreciation for something 'different' as a stick up there bums!

Anyway I like the good stuff in the dark.

[respirator]

My wife was an organist for a while, and I used to just love being in the same room. Utterly fantastic!

The same room as your wife or her organ?

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

[Jafo]

Different meters are cool (Soundgardens SuperUnknown is another great example). But it is still the exception. It is an exception to the point that we notice when somethings not in 4/4. The 600-years white guys that where referred to earlier at least had a more sophisticated sence of meters. As do much "ethnic" (hate the term) music (that has developed without the drum set - not to blame the drum set for the 4/4 tyranny ... exactly).

I completely agree with you. There are entire musical worlds that we Westerners have just begun to notice, let alone explore. Jazz musicians seem to go the furthest (Take Five), but there's still so much to try. This is a great time to be alive -- so many possibilities that it's almost embarrassing.

It takes a hell of a drummer to do something polyrythmic, but only two average musicians clapping

Sometimes even by design!

[Jafo]

The same room as your wife or her organ?

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

Yeah, I've heard 'em all (even made up a few!), but they're still funny.

[Jafo]

I should also mention that my wife's favorite band is Tool... honestly!

[Jafo]

Wow, three in a row... usually that leaves me exhausted...

(OK, I'll stop now...)

[Jafo]

You are always going to have to search hard for music that makes an effort to reach you. Kinda like finding a good pair of shoes. It's not the drums fault though, it's lack of basic rythm skills most "composers" have in popular music.

There is simply no desire to push the envelope and listeners of popular music have about as much appreciation for something 'different' as a stick up there bums!

I think you've got it right; it's partly the "composers" but mostly the listeners. I'd give you a karma point or two if we had them here.

[DWb]

You are always going to have to search hard for music that makes an effort to reach you. Kinda like finding a good pair of shoes. It's not the drums fault though, it's lack of basic rythm skills most "composers" have in popular music.

There is simply no desire to push the envelope and listeners of popular music have about as much appreciation for something 'different' as a stick up there bums!

I think you've got it right; it's partly the "composers" but mostly the listeners. I'd give you a karma point or two if we had them here.

To be fair to the listeners, a lot of popular music is or is derived from music that can be danced to, and that does call for a pretty regular rhythm.

Also, I think certain things do come naturally - marking the first beat of the bar with a kick is the most obvious (and yes, I know that most obvious != best) way to start a bar, particularly in music based around some sort of riff or groove, and that people dance / jump around / nod heads better to music with an accented offbeat. It's like having the bass play a supporting role or the tune end on the tonic - it's not the only way to do it (and you can have great fun by not doing it) but there are more valid reasons for it than mere herd mentality.

Oh, and on a different note, for a nicely unconventional use of a drum kit, check the Velvet Underground's Mo Tucker - as a classically trained (and avante garde leaning) percussionist, her approach to the drum kit was to put everything horizontal and play it like timps.

[insaneacyde]

thanks for da karma Jafo! Although maybe I know this problem so well that I should be making suggestions instead of just pointing at it like it's a poo in the pool...
all i know is some music is challenging and rewarding to listen to and some is like eating candy floss.

[Stupid American Pig]

I do think that pop music could stand a change from 4/4 being the norm to alternate meters being the standard. Unfortunately most electronic instruments are geared toward 4/4(xox drums anyone?) and 4/4 is the most "obvious" meter since that is what most of us grew up on. I have been tring to expand my meter horizons lately, it it is taking a while to feel "natural" in odd meters, and most of my 3/4 stuff sounds like a retarded waltz. But I am more comfortable in 3/4 lately and it has Definitely reduced my dependance on drums to drive a song...