A realistic Hypersaw and Supersaw emulation ?

[Calderon]

Hello, sorry for my bad english, firstly.

Hypersaw/Supersaw waveforms are complex ones, they have been and they are still very popular.
For that reason, a lot of companies have sampled them to give to their users an access to these beautiful sounds without having to pay the hardwares synths (Nexus2, Lethal, Omnisphere...)

But there is a major problem : Sampling.

You will never find a sampler that can give you something close to the real Hypersaw and Supersaw.

When you play a Hypersaw (or a Supersaw) from the hardware, there is magic in there : the sound evolve, it sounds organic, a kind of atmosphere is created.

When you play a sampled one, even from the best romplers, it sound cheesy, paralyzed, it lacks of energy, punch, realism, life. It sounds ugly.

So what could we do ?

Since years I have this project in mind, I remember as a child all my dreams were about having a Virus TI and get access to these massive hypersaws , that we could hear in Hardstyle, Trance, and on many Pop records from the 2005-2011 area.

Today, I am the lucky owner of A Virus TI2, and of a JP8080.

Basically, my project is about making a Kontakt library with the goal of getting as close as possible to the real sound, I mean the sound from the synthesizer.
I don't have a deep experience in Sound design, but I worked for some company as a Rompler sound-designer. I also created my own Kontakt library, wich is 6GB of Dance sounds, but wich I keep in my pc right now.


So, I am not an expert, but I think I have the ability to carry out this project.





Let's learn from the errors made in the past :

Let's take a Nexus2 JP8000 Lead. If we analyze IT, we will see two majors errors :

- the samples quantity : they record only 3 notes per octave. And they will pitch the notes to get it fully playable.

Pitching a sample is one of the worst treatment you can apply to a sound, just do this on an acoustic guitar, it will sound horrible.

For that reason, the quality is already very distorded.

- the next error is : NO ROUND-ROBIN ! This is even worst ! It makes the sound awful, inert, and it also cause the machine gun effect when you play some chords/arps, or just play the same note(s) over and over.

This is why I never been happy with the Nexus2 sounds : the sound-designer made a good sound, but it sound bad when you play with it.


My idea consist of :

Creating a Kontakt library with :

- 12 notes per octave.

- With a 4 Round Robin for each notes.

This way, we could get a very close to the original waveforms library for Kontakt.

The quality would be pristine, and the emulation would be very realistic thanks to avoiding any "sampling artefact" like machine gun etc.


A free or a paying library ?

I don't do it for money, but I want to do it seriously.

I don't need money, I have a good job, but I don't think it is necessary a good thing to release it for free.

I don't really like the idea behind everyone being able to get access to nearly any sounds they want...


But the price would not excess 15-20 euros for each library.

I mean I would create two libraries, one for the Hypersaw, the other for the Supersaw.


I want to know if it could interest someone ! Or if you have any opinions about it.

[Zexila]

We already got Diva and Viper, so yeah, cold turkey.

[Calderon]

We already got Diva and Viper, so yeah, cold turkey.

None of them are near to a Virus or JP8000 fatness.

[Zexila]

Good enough for my non golden ears.

[Calderon]

I honestly don't know about Viper, but I don't think a Synthmaker a vst can be in the same league.

[Zexila]

I honestly don't know about Viper, but I don't think a Synthmaker a vst can be in the same league.

Elitist much?

[Calderon]

Good enough for my non golden ears.

I understand, it is a question of taste. Many people love the Sylenth1 supersaw. This is something I really hate, for example.

[Calderon]

I honestly don't know about Viper, but I don't think a Synthmaker a vst can be in the same league.

Elitist much?

It is not about elitism, but it is about the importance you give to these elements in your music. I don't know you, but you are (maybe) not into Uplifiting/anthem Trance, Hardstyle, and every genres that gives a focus on fat saw leads. This is where Virus and JP8080 make the difference in front of plugins.


I mean, for example, I don't give a big importance in my music for bass sounds. I know my bass are not as warmer as a Moog can be, but it does not matter as my music is not focusing on bass. It simply does the job well.

[Zexila]

Good enough for my non golden ears.

I understand, it is a question of taste. Many people love the Sylenth1 supersaw. This is something I really hate, for example.

Diva have part of JP and Viper is emulating parts of Virus, it's not some synths that sound a like, they are trying to be as close as they can to the hardware.

[Zexila]

I honestly don't know about Viper, but I don't think a Synthmaker a vst can be in the same league.

Elitist much?

It is not about elitism, but it is about the importance you give to these elements in your music. I don't know you, but you are (maybe) not into Uplifiting/anthem Trance, Hardstyle, and every genres that gives a focus on fat saw leads. This is where Virus and JP8080 make the difference in front of plugins.


I mean, for example, I don't give a big importance in my music for bass sounds. I know my bass are not as warmer as a Moog can be, but it does not matter as my music is not focusing on bass. It simply does the job well.

Well, I had psy basslines fetishes and you obviously got suepersaw/hypersaw one, our perception is way out of proportion, small nuances become so huge suddenly, but in reality they are so negligible.

[Calderon]

Good enough for my non golden ears.

I understand, it is a question of taste. Many people love the Sylenth1 supersaw. This is something I really hate, for example.

Diva have part of JP and Viper is emulating parts of Virus, it's not some synths that sound a like, they are trying to be as close as they can to the hardware.

Well... The days I received my Virus and my JP8080, it sounded everything but a vst emulation.

It sounded like....like you pulled out the sounds directly out of your favourites albums.

It is weird but this is it. You actually play the synth, and you instantly recognize the little nuances, the fatness, everything else like you hear before on some of your favourite music (assuming you like JP8080 and Virus music!).


When playing an emulation...Well, it sounds like another digital synth...

[fluffy_little_something]

I remember as a child all my dreams were about having a Virus TI and get access to these massive hypersaw.

You must have been a strange child

[Calderon]

I remember as a child all my dreams were about having a Virus TI and get access to these massive hypersaw.

You must have been a strange child

I don't even lie !

[Zexila]

When playing an emulation...Well, it sounds like another digital synth...

Well, they are digital synths and your idea about capturing just oscillator section and than using rest of Kontakt is not better than recreating whole signal path of given synths where all nuances happen with soft synth emulation.

[fluffy_little_something]

I remember as a child all my dreams were about having a Virus TI and get access to these massive hypersaw.

You must have been a strange child

I don't even lie !

To me Supersaw and Hypersaw sound all the same, except for a few really bad exceptions.