Bitwig 5.2 BETA available

[Trancit]

You can measure the aliasing that Over produces. In my tests it was less than Kclip with 32x oversampling at about half the CPU use (single-band, hardclip, 48khz SR). So, depends on the viewpoint. If you think clipping loads of channels, generating aliasing on top of aliasing, but in a cpu-friendly manner is the usual use-case for mixing, you can drop bitwig a friendly email and ask if it is possible to implement that.

You assume everybody would use a clipper to go deep into the flesh and distort the signal heavily...which is actually not the job of a clipper...

What does you serve extreme antialiasing if you use a clipper for what it´s actually made for???
It´s made to clip off transients... short spikes which often last less than a millisecond and are 99% settled just in the extreme high frequency range...
Everybody who tells me you would need any antialiasing respectively OS in this moment at all has just lost his mind...

Nonetheless many people are abusing clippers for extreme distorting as well and that´s fine...

Easy solution: Offer a simple switch where you can enable your good antialiasing in the moment you need it but do not force everybody to use 30 times the CPU for situations where it doesn´t bring anything on the table apart from CPU increase...

We run in circles here... of course there can be situations where this higher quality is wished and needed... same for this compressor+ thingie... same for Polymer... same for the Grid...
This doesn´t justify to force everybody to always spend the higher CPU costs no matter what...even if you want lower quality... you simply cannot... they do not allow it!

Again: Why did every plugin developer out there spend the effort to provide you with user settings about the quality/OS???
Because there are multiple situations... sometimes it makes sense...sometimes it just wasted resources as you cannot (or even don´t want to) make use of the higher quality...
The Bitwigs are giving a sh*t on this fact...

[Trancit]

Delay+ is fairly light on CPU compared to my delay plugins.

Yes, Delay+ is an enjoyable exception ...

Phaser+, Chorus+ and Flanger+ all have a good sound quality to cpu ratio.

The only + device which stands out to me as being particularly high on the CPU is the new Compressor+ and it is only on Beta 1. I haven't tested it enough to have a clear sense of what I am getting for that CPU use.

Yes, but there is the Saturator which uses about 5 times the CPU of i.e. Ableton´s (I did mention again the ones who shall not be named) Saturator...
There is Polymer which is because of the Grid oversampled by default which can make sense but not necessarily has to make sense...
Same of course for the Grid...
There is Filter+ (distortion deactivated) which takes more than 50% of CPU for 20 instances with the Moog filter compared to 12% for 20 instances of the Ableton´s Autofilter with Cytomic´s PRD filter with drive... this is more than 4 times higher CPU load and please don´t tell me the Grid standard filters would be better to what Cytomic offers...

And I bet the other "+" devices... newer devices in general... are no exception...

No matter where you look it´s one CPU hog beside the other ... most likely because of default high oversampling...
Some of them aren´t really noticeable on their own as 1 instance just takes a smaller amount of CPU because of it´s nature but it adds up and is easily measurable compared to what other have got...
If you are fine with using the double or often 4 times the amount of CPU which would be mostly needed... well your decision...
I am not ... not for just wasting it without any sense!

[lodsb]

You can measure the aliasing that Over produces. In my tests it was less than Kclip with 32x oversampling at about half the CPU use (single-band, hardclip, 48khz SR). So, depends on the viewpoint. If you think clipping loads of channels, generating aliasing on top of aliasing, but in a cpu-friendly manner is the usual use-case for mixing, you can drop bitwig a friendly email and ask if it is possible to implement that.

You assume everybody would use a clipper to go deep into the flesh and distort the signal heavily...which is actually not the job of a clipper...

No, I am assuming that if you do that kind of hard distortion, you'd want a quality comparable to "the real thing", which is outside of the box. The same (likely) applies to the other devices.

You've made your point and I'll refrain from making any further comments on that.

[Trancit]

No, I am assuming that if you do that kind of hard distortion, you'd want a quality comparable to "the real thing", which is outside of the box. The same (likely) applies to the other devices.
...

I said nothing else...

Easy solution: Offer a simple switch where you can enable your good antialiasing in the moment you need it but do not force everybody to use 30 times the CPU for situations where it doesn´t bring anything on the table apart from CPU increase...

Of course in such situations you want to have the higher quality...
But this doesn´t mean there should be no escape and that you have to take the higher quality for all other situations too where it´s actually not needed/wished...

This is actually my whole point:
Let me switch the high quality mode off for situations where I don´t need it... and this is not possible with Bitwig natives... and this makes them to CPU hogs what would be the case for every other plugin if the devs of them wouldn´t offer the user quality settings... but they do offer them...

Imagine every plugin on the market would always run in full OS mode without you being able to switch it off... I guess quite a few people would be upset and rightly so... but this is actually the standard situation with many Bitwig natives.

[pdxindy]

This is actually my whole point:
Let me switch the high quality mode off for situations where I don´t need it... and this is not possible with Bitwig natives... and this makes them to CPU hogs what would be the case for every other plugin if the devs of them wouldn´t offer the user quality settings... but they do offer them...

Imagine every plugin on the market would always run in full OS mode without you being able to switch it off... I guess quite a few people would be upset and rightly so... but this is actually the standard situation with many Bitwig natives.

Your basic request is legitimate. But then you start distorting things in order to justify it.

One way is you are claiming that Bitwig doesn't offer you a choice. But they do. In two ways. One, they also provide low CPU devices (f.e. Compressor and Compressor+). Two, they support plugins which lets you choose low or high cpu plugins according to your needs.

There is no significant problem here. There is a legitimate but minor feature request which you have blown out of proportion.

[vroteg]

Your basic request is legitimate. But then you start distorting things in order to justify it.

One way is you are claiming that Bitwig doesn't offer you a choice. But they do. In two ways. One, they also provide low CPU devices (f.e. Compressor and Compressor+). Two, they support plugins which lets you choose low or high cpu plugins according to your needs.

There is no significant problem here. There is a legitimate but minor feature request which you have blown out of proportion.

I find your solution absolutely ridiculous as always. Seems like your over protection of this daw is taken over your common sense.

So you tell a person to don’t use plugins the ones he paid for and use something else? If person want to use any feature of the included plugin but forced not to because of by default oversampling always on is minor issue?

Don’t forget bitwig is a company which survive by being paid by customers. You make it seems like this daw don’t own you anything. Let me open a secret for you. It f**king does because we, customers pay for it. Not donate. Pay.

[Greenstorm33]

Spoiler alert: not everyone is you. If users start dropping the DAW en-masse because you can't turn off oversampling on a few devices, they'll surely implement it. Will people do that? I doubt it.

[musikarldererste]

for me the cpu is a big problem , i will not use bitwig because of this
maybe i will go back to ableton

[Paterfiets]

Don’t forget bitwig is a company which survive by being paid by customers. You make it seems like this daw don’t own you anything. Let me open a secret for you. It f**king does because we, customers pay for it. Not donate. Pay.

I dunno but I haven't received any email from Bitwig where they are forcing me to pay.

If the update doesn't suit me I'll just skip it and wait for something more to my liking.

And if I am in an active update plan that's because they offered features I was interested in and was happy to pay for and this update is a bonus.

Which I don't even need to install if I don't want to..

[vroteg]

I dunno but I haven't received any email from Bitwig where they are forcing me to pay.

If the update doesn't suit me I'll just skip it and wait for something more to my liking.

And if I am in an active update plan that's because they offered features I was interested in and was happy to pay for and this update is a bonus.

Which I don't even need to install if I don't want to..

Again every single word is wrong. Don’t blame you. When you grow up you will understand how business work.

A. They run a business. Their business should strongly invite to upgrade. Which is almost the same as force just voluntary.
B. Most of upgrade plans work the way you described but not bitwig. You always pay for one year of updates and what came before is a bonus. So you pay for updates you don’t know you need or not.

[Dionysos]

PSA: Don't make the same mistake as me. Clicking on that "Display this post" link is never worth it.

[drsyncenstein]

Again every single word is wrong. Don’t blame you. When you grow up you will understand how business work.

That's pretty arrogant and condescending. No need for that, arguments are sufficient in a discussion.

[Jac459]

Your basic request is legitimate. But then you start distorting things in order to justify it.

One way is you are claiming that Bitwig doesn't offer you a choice. But they do. In two ways. One, they also provide low CPU devices (f.e. Compressor and Compressor+). Two, they support plugins which lets you choose low or high cpu plugins according to your needs.

There is no significant problem here. There is a legitimate but minor feature request which you have blown out of proportion.

I find your solution absolutely ridiculous as always. Seems like your over protection of this daw is taken over your common sense.

So you tell a person to don’t use plugins the ones he paid for and use something else? If person want to use any feature of the included plugin but forced not to because of by default oversampling always on is minor issue?

Don’t forget bitwig is a company which survive by being paid by customers. You make it seems like this daw don’t own you anything. Let me open a secret for you. It f**king does because we, customers pay for it. Not donate. Pay.

It took me a while to understand that this self-upset rant is about an oversampling parameter on a device. What The Actual F...k ?
I don't think anybody is trying to defend the DAW here just common sense....

[Jac459]

I dunno but I haven't received any email from Bitwig where they are forcing me to pay.

If the update doesn't suit me I'll just skip it and wait for something more to my liking.

And if I am in an active update plan that's because they offered features I was interested in and was happy to pay for and this update is a bonus.

Which I don't even need to install if I don't want to..

Again every single word is wrong. Don’t blame you. When you grow up you will understand how business work.

A. They run a business. Their business should strongly invite to upgrade. Which is almost the same as force just voluntary.
B. Most of upgrade plans work the way you described but not bitwig. You always pay for one year of updates and what came before is a bonus. So you pay for updates you don’t know you need or not.

What are you even talking about ????

Their business should strongly invite to upgrade. Which is almost the same as force just voluntary.

I hope you understand how stupid this sentence sounds...
Oxford Dictionary: make somebody do something
​ [often passive] to make somebody do something that they do not want to do
SYNONYM compel.

So you pay for updates you don’t know you need or not.

First, every update plans work like that.
Second, if you are not confortable, just don't buy it and wait for the update to be out to decide if you want it. What is so complex for you ?

You seems desperate to defend a position that is not defendable...

[Bjørnson]

What are you even talking about ????

That question will sadly not be solved in this forum