The linux DAW thread
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- KVRAF
- 9276 posts since 6 Oct, 2004
Hi, I think your card may use the 'snd_ice1712' kernel module. Kernel modules are the 'drivers' in linux, and that one should be built-in with AVLinux kernel. Open a terminal and type
arecord -l
and in a second terminal,
aplay -l
The output of these will list the audio interfaces/motherboard sound chips the kernel recognizes.
My output looks like
The names of detected audio devices are wrapped in brackets. In the qjackctl configuration gui,
the Settings panel has two tabs, one is Parameters, for rate numeric settings, the other is Advanced, for sound i/o choices. Here should be listed the items wrapped in brackets from the
aplay -l and arecord -l commands above. The selector widget is shown in the pics
The Parameters page is easy:
Try and match the command output to the qjackctl gui choices. The names will likely be different, but if the Terratec is detected, the choice is easy.
In the qjackctl Connections panel, 'system' represents your audio interface inputs on the left side, and outputs on the right side. Select an item from each side, and press the 'Connect' button on the lower left of the gui. This is often automatically done for us. In the pic below, the connections were expanded to show stereo, by clicking the little black triangle widgets on the left side of each choice. The second pic shows them 'unconnected'
There are two related mixer gui tools, envy24control and the newer mudita24, here is mudita24, with one of 7 panels to configure the audio interface using envy24 chips.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/envy24control
Here's a video for using the package manager synaptic to install/remove software, AVLinux is based on MX Linux, team-mates :
https://youtu.be/13wxT5QIOvg
Hope this helps!
arecord -l
and in a second terminal,
aplay -l
The output of these will list the audio interfaces/motherboard sound chips the kernel recognizes.
My output looks like
The names of detected audio devices are wrapped in brackets. In the qjackctl configuration gui,
the Settings panel has two tabs, one is Parameters, for rate numeric settings, the other is Advanced, for sound i/o choices. Here should be listed the items wrapped in brackets from the
aplay -l and arecord -l commands above. The selector widget is shown in the pics
The Parameters page is easy:
Try and match the command output to the qjackctl gui choices. The names will likely be different, but if the Terratec is detected, the choice is easy.
In the qjackctl Connections panel, 'system' represents your audio interface inputs on the left side, and outputs on the right side. Select an item from each side, and press the 'Connect' button on the lower left of the gui. This is often automatically done for us. In the pic below, the connections were expanded to show stereo, by clicking the little black triangle widgets on the left side of each choice. The second pic shows them 'unconnected'
There are two related mixer gui tools, envy24control and the newer mudita24, here is mudita24, with one of 7 panels to configure the audio interface using envy24 chips.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/envy24control
Here's a video for using the package manager synaptic to install/remove software, AVLinux is based on MX Linux, team-mates :
https://youtu.be/13wxT5QIOvg
Hope this helps!
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- KVRAF
- 2547 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
It will be interesting to see if @surreal gets his Terratec card working in Linux. Its still a nice card although its 20 years old, and I doubt that there are drivers for it in Windows 10 or 11. Would it still work on an old Mac? Anyway,its a good boost for Linux audio if it still works there.
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- KVRAF
- 9276 posts since 6 Oct, 2004
There are quite a few older interfaces made around the envy24 chips, my maudio card is also old, but works perfectly for what I need, via the snd_ice1712 kernel module. Recently, Focusrite recognized the great work of a linux dev in making their devices work in linux, even donating some hardware, so there are high-end interfaces with software editor, if our older gear bytes the dust.
Here's a disscussion of the software connections tool:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... =focusrite
2nd/3rd gen Scarlett support:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... it=scarlet
https://news.itsfoss.com/focusrite-linux/
linux devs x42 and tseaver also have focusrite related tools
Love the progress!
Here's a disscussion of the software connections tool:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... =focusrite
2nd/3rd gen Scarlett support:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... it=scarlet
https://news.itsfoss.com/focusrite-linux/
linux devs x42 and tseaver also have focusrite related tools
Love the progress!
- KVRAF
- 2548 posts since 3 Dec, 2006
Thank you very much.... now I hit another snag.. my nvidia card is also not supported when I try to install the nvidia linux drivers.. it says that the hardware is to old for the debian core.. however.. I actually got the graphics card nvidia Geforce 7800 gtx and terratec phase 88 card installed on an unactived windows 10 pro installed on my other pc... still needs to be tested with bandlab cakewalk to see that it holds! But its actually in way positive but not what I was aiming for ( I cant afford to buy win 10 and I wanted to create an full linux workstation with what I have) anyway I will try again with Glokraw's suggestions, thank for your help Brother! !glokraw wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:31 am Hi, I think your card may use the 'snd_ice1712' kernel module. Kernel modules are the 'drivers' in linux, and that one should be built-in with AVLinux kernel. Open a terminal and type
arecord -l
and in a second terminal,
aplay -l
The output of these will list the audio interfaces/motherboard sound chips the kernel recognizes.
My output looks like
arecord-output.jpg
aplay output.jpg
The names of detected audio devices are wrapped in brackets. In the qjackctl configuration gui,
the Settings panel has two tabs, one is Parameters, for rate numeric settings, the other is Advanced, for sound i/o choices. Here should be listed the items wrapped in brackets from the
aplay -l and arecord -l commands above. The selector widget is shown in the pics
qjackctl-input-device.jpg
qjackctl-output-device.jpg
The Parameters page is easy:
qjackctl-parameters.jpg
Try and match the command output to the qjackctl gui choices. The names will likely be different, but if the Terratec is detected, the choice is easy.
In the qjackctl Connections panel, 'system' represents your audio interface inputs on the left side, and outputs on the right side. Select an item from each side, and press the 'Connect' button on the lower left of the gui. This is often automatically done for us. In the pic below, the connections were expanded to show stereo, by clicking the little black triangle widgets on the left side of each choice. The second pic shows them 'unconnected'
qjackctl-connections.jpg
qjackctl-disconnected i-o.jpg
There are two related mixer gui tools, envy24control and the newer mudita24, here is mudita24, with one of 7 panels to configure the audio interface using envy24 chips.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/envy24control
mudita24.jpg
Here's a video for using the package manager synaptic to install/remove software, AVLinux is based on MX Linux, team-mates :
https://youtu.be/13wxT5QIOvg
Hope this helps!
- KVRAF
- 2548 posts since 3 Dec, 2006
Belive it or not... I actually got it installed win10 2h22 pro version. . I cant activate the windows 10 version as I cant afford a key, sad but intresting that got it actually installed with win 10 prodellboy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:46 am It will be interesting to see if @surreal gets his Terratec card working in Linux. Its still a nice card although its 20 years old, and I doubt that there are drivers for it in Windows 10 or 11. Would it still work on an old Mac? Anyway,its a good boost for Linux audio if it still works there.
- KVRAF
- 5369 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
A short while ago, I got into a heated discussion about how many of the well known problems with Linux have been resolved through the use of Immutability (for example, Fedora Silverblue), containerization (Toolbx and Distrobox) and other separation methods such as Flatpak, AppImage, and Snaps. I stated that through the use of these tools, dependency hell, system instabilities, and problems where there are 600+ distros and developers don't want to create binaries for everyone are for the most part solved for the end user. I felt that after that heated conversation (that in the end got locked), I needed to back up what I'm saying and further explain things for those who might be interested.
I will be using Fedora Silverblue as my OS example, but I want everyone to be aware that there are many immutable/atomic Linux OSes available these days, and even without using an immutable Linux distro, most of the things that I will mention can be applied to any Linux distro, and still greatly reduce any chances of ever experiencing a problem with dependency hell, while at the same time greatly increasing system stability.
So, let's start with why these things that I mentioned in the previous paragraph are the future of Linux, and how do they benefit a Linux user? Here are some links that do a great job of explaining this (again, by using Fedora Silverblue as an example for this explanation):
https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/silverblue/
https://www.maketecheasier.com/fedora-s ... -of-linux/
https://www.dvlv.co.uk/pages/a-beginner ... rblue.html
https://www.makeuseof.com/fedora-silver ... rkstation/
https://fedoramagazine.org/what-is-silverblue/
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-silverblue/
Here are some unvarnished user opinions about using this new Linux technology:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comment ... use_linux/
-----------------------------------------
So, with that brief intro, I want to explain how things work and some of the reasons why this fixes the problems that were mentioned above. You start with a clean install of your distro (whatever it is). Install Distrobox and Flatpak. Install as many of the apps that you can from Flatpak. Everything else, use Distrobox. Try to install the least you can onto your main distro--this keeps it as clean and untouched as possible, so that there are few to no apps that can conflict on the main OS. If you must install a file onto your main distro, only install files from your distro's main repository.
If you do this, your main OS will remain clean and untouched, while allowing you to still use all of the apps you want on your system as if they were all installed onto your main OS. In reality, however, Distrobox and Flatpak will be separating all of the apps installed into them from your main OS. Distrobox allows you to install any distro as a container. So, you can have a base OS of Debian Stable, but on top of that you can run a container of Arch and a container of Fedora (or whatever OSes you want, and as many as you want), and use the apps from those distros within those containers as if they were installed into your main OS. There is no longer any software from any Linux distribution that you cannot install on your main Linux distro!
Distrobox is an easy to use front end to the containerization tools, most commonly Podman. Here is a quick explanation of what containerization is and how it works:
https://www.ridge.co/blog/what-are-containers/
https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/a-beg ... a9e3e119b/
Here's a quick explanation of specifically what Distrobox is:
https://itsfoss.com/distrobox/
Summary:
So, in essence, through the use of an immutable Linux distro, and tools like distrobox and flatpak (as well as toolbx, appimage, snaps, etc), the problems dependency hell and accessing software from other Linux distros are a thing of the past.
I'll give a personal example: Once version 40 of Fedora Silverblue is released, I'm going to set up my system, utilizing the following:
* Fedora Silverblue provides a solid OS base with an immutable/atomic OS core that can't be overwritten, thus protecting my core OS from being damaged or from having conflicts.
* I will use Flatpak installs to provide individually containerized graphic applications that can't touch the main OS.
* I will use toolbx (a simplified tool like Distrobox that comes with Fedora) for any Fedora Silverblue specific software that I will use with my main OS--it won't be able to touch my main OS, but it will start from an icon and run as if it is from the main OS itself.
* I will use Distrobox to run any other distros that I want. These distros will all use the kernel of my main Linux distro, and there is almost no performance loss. These separate containers can contain as many distros as I want. In my case, since most everything comes as a .DEB, I'll probably run Ubuntu as my main Distrobox containerized OS. I can use the Ubuntu package manager and push apps directly to the container. I can export the icon of these apps to my main OS and start them from in the container as if I were starting them from my main OS. Flatpak applications also put an icon on your desktop and fully integrate with the main OS and look and feel as if they are part of the main OS. To the user, there is no visible difference, even though all of this separation and containerization is going on. The user won't notice a difference.
* I will install my audio software, including my DAW, and my native linux plugins. I will also install WINE and yabridge into that same container, and run whatever Windows plugins I want to run as well from there.
* Since my laptop is a 2-in-1, I can treat my laptop as a tablet as well. I will install Waydroid into my main system as well. Waydroid is a containerized, full version of Android that gives me full access to all android applications from my laptop, and integrates the icons just like Flatpak and Distrobox does. Android applications will sit as icons on my desktop right alongside my other applications.
* If there is something that I can not get to work with WINE, I can use KVM/QEMU to virtualize a full version of Windows or MacOS, or anything else I want, that can be run from within my Linux system. The main drawback here is that latency and performance isn't as fast as using an API compatibility layer like WINE.
* I'll probably use game machine emulators run from Flatpak to play games on, or I will use Steam.
I hope this serves as a evidence-based explanation of what I have spoken about before in these forums, and it helps users to better understand the future of Linux.
Best wishes!!
I will be using Fedora Silverblue as my OS example, but I want everyone to be aware that there are many immutable/atomic Linux OSes available these days, and even without using an immutable Linux distro, most of the things that I will mention can be applied to any Linux distro, and still greatly reduce any chances of ever experiencing a problem with dependency hell, while at the same time greatly increasing system stability.
So, let's start with why these things that I mentioned in the previous paragraph are the future of Linux, and how do they benefit a Linux user? Here are some links that do a great job of explaining this (again, by using Fedora Silverblue as an example for this explanation):
https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/silverblue/
https://www.maketecheasier.com/fedora-s ... -of-linux/
https://www.dvlv.co.uk/pages/a-beginner ... rblue.html
https://www.makeuseof.com/fedora-silver ... rkstation/
https://fedoramagazine.org/what-is-silverblue/
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-silverblue/
Here are some unvarnished user opinions about using this new Linux technology:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comment ... use_linux/
-----------------------------------------
So, with that brief intro, I want to explain how things work and some of the reasons why this fixes the problems that were mentioned above. You start with a clean install of your distro (whatever it is). Install Distrobox and Flatpak. Install as many of the apps that you can from Flatpak. Everything else, use Distrobox. Try to install the least you can onto your main distro--this keeps it as clean and untouched as possible, so that there are few to no apps that can conflict on the main OS. If you must install a file onto your main distro, only install files from your distro's main repository.
If you do this, your main OS will remain clean and untouched, while allowing you to still use all of the apps you want on your system as if they were all installed onto your main OS. In reality, however, Distrobox and Flatpak will be separating all of the apps installed into them from your main OS. Distrobox allows you to install any distro as a container. So, you can have a base OS of Debian Stable, but on top of that you can run a container of Arch and a container of Fedora (or whatever OSes you want, and as many as you want), and use the apps from those distros within those containers as if they were installed into your main OS. There is no longer any software from any Linux distribution that you cannot install on your main Linux distro!
Distrobox is an easy to use front end to the containerization tools, most commonly Podman. Here is a quick explanation of what containerization is and how it works:
https://www.ridge.co/blog/what-are-containers/
https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/a-beg ... a9e3e119b/
Here's a quick explanation of specifically what Distrobox is:
https://itsfoss.com/distrobox/
Summary:
So, in essence, through the use of an immutable Linux distro, and tools like distrobox and flatpak (as well as toolbx, appimage, snaps, etc), the problems dependency hell and accessing software from other Linux distros are a thing of the past.
I'll give a personal example: Once version 40 of Fedora Silverblue is released, I'm going to set up my system, utilizing the following:
* Fedora Silverblue provides a solid OS base with an immutable/atomic OS core that can't be overwritten, thus protecting my core OS from being damaged or from having conflicts.
* I will use Flatpak installs to provide individually containerized graphic applications that can't touch the main OS.
* I will use toolbx (a simplified tool like Distrobox that comes with Fedora) for any Fedora Silverblue specific software that I will use with my main OS--it won't be able to touch my main OS, but it will start from an icon and run as if it is from the main OS itself.
* I will use Distrobox to run any other distros that I want. These distros will all use the kernel of my main Linux distro, and there is almost no performance loss. These separate containers can contain as many distros as I want. In my case, since most everything comes as a .DEB, I'll probably run Ubuntu as my main Distrobox containerized OS. I can use the Ubuntu package manager and push apps directly to the container. I can export the icon of these apps to my main OS and start them from in the container as if I were starting them from my main OS. Flatpak applications also put an icon on your desktop and fully integrate with the main OS and look and feel as if they are part of the main OS. To the user, there is no visible difference, even though all of this separation and containerization is going on. The user won't notice a difference.
* I will install my audio software, including my DAW, and my native linux plugins. I will also install WINE and yabridge into that same container, and run whatever Windows plugins I want to run as well from there.
* Since my laptop is a 2-in-1, I can treat my laptop as a tablet as well. I will install Waydroid into my main system as well. Waydroid is a containerized, full version of Android that gives me full access to all android applications from my laptop, and integrates the icons just like Flatpak and Distrobox does. Android applications will sit as icons on my desktop right alongside my other applications.
* If there is something that I can not get to work with WINE, I can use KVM/QEMU to virtualize a full version of Windows or MacOS, or anything else I want, that can be run from within my Linux system. The main drawback here is that latency and performance isn't as fast as using an API compatibility layer like WINE.
* I'll probably use game machine emulators run from Flatpak to play games on, or I will use Steam.
I hope this serves as a evidence-based explanation of what I have spoken about before in these forums, and it helps users to better understand the future of Linux.
Best wishes!!
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
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- KVRian
- 983 posts since 22 Apr, 2004 from Switzerland
Thank you for this post. Very useful information.audiojunkie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:19 am So, in essence, through the use of an immutable Linux distro, and tools like distrobox and flatpak (as well as toolbx, appimage, snaps, etc), the problems dependency hell and accessing software from other Linux distros are a thing of the past.
I only have experience with Docker Images. They can get quite big with very little effort. Do you have any insights in how much extra disk space these tools will use?
Not that disk space these days is a big issue though, just curious how it is in practise.
- KVRAF
- 5369 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
It really depends on what you put into it. It can be small if you only put in one app, or it can be the size of a full os if you put all of your apps and tools in it.
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
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- KVRAF
- 9276 posts since 6 Oct, 2004
The Guitarix dev has released Ratatouille V.3, a fine tool allowing two of .nam, .aida, or .json files to be loaded and blended, as well as one or two IR files, which also can be blended. This is great functionality for guitarists and virtual amp users across the world.
A gui screenshot and details are at the link:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=27023
A gui screenshot and details are at the link:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=27023
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- KVRAF
- 11792 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle
Thanks for that link. I'll def check it out. I'm currently running dual Audiophile 2496 cards on a Win-10 machine, and a first gen Focusrite 6i6 on another. In considering a Linux build, which do you feel would be least problematic? Windows I can troubleshoot, as I still occasionally build ground up workstation systems, but have zero experience with Linux.glokraw wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:25 pm There are quite a few older interfaces made around the envy24 chips, my maudio card is also old, but works perfectly for what I need, via the snd_ice1712 kernel module. Recently, Focusrite recognized the great work of a linux dev in making their devices work in linux, even donating some hardware, so there are high-end interfaces with software editor, if our older gear bytes the dust.
Here's a disscussion of the software connections tool:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... =focusrite
Love the progress!
I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil
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- KVRAF
- 9276 posts since 6 Oct, 2004
Hi, I've used an Audiophile 24/96 card in various linuxi for a decade +, no issues, and excellent sound. It uses the ice1712 kernel module, which has been standard in most linux distributions for a long time.
I have a few different versions of AVLinux, a debian system based on MX Linux distro. It is highly pre-configured for musicians, comes with a lot of software ready to work, including wine, and a vst plugin wrapper with a gui (yadbridge) that lets you browse to, and select vst plugin locations, Then it will wrap the windows plugins, creating a new version alongside, with .so extension that linux daws recognize. AVL uses Enlightenment as default desktop manager, and the newish Pipewire audio system, but I install and use the qjackctl/jackd audio system, and the xfce desktop manager.
The synaptic package manager makes such tasks easy, once familiar, youtube has 'thrilling' videos
https://youtu.be/OP7h0nG1fGg
https://youtu.be/UB3ZTmZMjs0
Rufus is a handy utility to place a linux distro .iso file, in bootable form, on a usbstick, so you can test different versions at leisure.
https://rufus.ie/en/#google_vignette
AVLinux iso can be found at http://www.bandshed.net/
It is one man's personal work for over a decade, and he posts sometimes as GMaq at www.linuxmusicians.com
And the rest, as they say, will be history
I have a few different versions of AVLinux, a debian system based on MX Linux distro. It is highly pre-configured for musicians, comes with a lot of software ready to work, including wine, and a vst plugin wrapper with a gui (yadbridge) that lets you browse to, and select vst plugin locations, Then it will wrap the windows plugins, creating a new version alongside, with .so extension that linux daws recognize. AVL uses Enlightenment as default desktop manager, and the newish Pipewire audio system, but I install and use the qjackctl/jackd audio system, and the xfce desktop manager.
The synaptic package manager makes such tasks easy, once familiar, youtube has 'thrilling' videos
https://youtu.be/OP7h0nG1fGg
https://youtu.be/UB3ZTmZMjs0
Rufus is a handy utility to place a linux distro .iso file, in bootable form, on a usbstick, so you can test different versions at leisure.
https://rufus.ie/en/#google_vignette
AVLinux iso can be found at http://www.bandshed.net/
It is one man's personal work for over a decade, and he posts sometimes as GMaq at www.linuxmusicians.com
And the rest, as they say, will be history
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- KVRAF
- 9276 posts since 6 Oct, 2004
Someone is bringing NAM and ladspa plugins to android devices, in an open-source project, work is ongoing, and android latency issues are being addressed, details at
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=27125
Cheers
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=27125
Cheers
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Artie Fichelle Artie Fichelle https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=49629
- KVRist
- 274 posts since 28 Nov, 2004
although AV Linux is good, I find it easier with linux Debian 12 and Cinnamon desktop. it is a littler more work to set up yabridge for example, but the desktop is not so cluttered.
artie fichelle sounds natural
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- KVRAF
- 11792 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle
Cool, thank you. That's what I want to use, as I have a third one sitting in a drawer.
I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil