How to harden a kick?

[Pinkfloydian5]

One of the most difficult things is to harden the kick in processing. I listen to the kicks of the pros (psytrance), and I can't get over how solid they are. After Kick2 I put in an Rbass, Vitamin and other multiband plugins just to change the phase, like Imprint. I eq with proQ3 and a 30-band graphic equalizer, frequency by frequency. Mainly I try boosting in the "2nd harmonic" and in the highs zone and then I use up to two limiters to compact the sound as much as possible. But even then, after all, my kick is still internally weaker. Do you know or can you think of what else I can try? What vst can I add?
Maybe I'm not doing something well in the synthesis, but you can imagine that even with many plugins already inserted, I return to Kick2 to see if there is something to improve... I don't know what else to do... Many many thanks people!

[OscSync]

I would buy a couple packs and analyse them. The best ones I've found are:

https://muteproduction.gumroad.com/l/ForestKik
https://adrenakrohm.gumroad.com/l/nnwyvz
https://www.futurephonic.co.uk/products ... -for-kick2

All of these sound great at source, without any need for post-processing.
The point being, get it right in Kick 2 first.

[Pinkfloydian5]

Already did that. I saw a video of E-clip but he did not teach the entire processing, just the synthesis. The point of that is that his kick was the same weaker than mine after just eq-rbass-vitamin. He said it (that kick is weak and needs processing). I already analyzed visually some kicks but this is purely about a matter of sound; i'm sure i am missing something about some vst. Thank you anyway bro!

[OscSync]

It's all about getting the node placement correct in Kick 2.
Very rarely do I see any post-processing other than EQ but that can also be achieved by adding a volume dip just after the transient.

[jens]

One of the most difficult things is to harden the kick

You need to put your whole into it - you need to really want it - gather all your strength, then let go - but in a controlled way...


oh, and wearing spike shoes can help too of course.

[ChanceB]

Slap by Yum Audio is great for processing kicks ,kind of expensive though.

[martinjuenke]

For some guys a blue pill works wonders.

[Pinkfloydian5]

It's all about getting the node placement correct in Kick 2.
Very rarely do I see any post-processing other than EQ but that can also be achieved by adding a volume dip just after the transient.

Yes, that's just what I do. This is what the Rbass does, but I don't like how it raises the pitch and it's better to do it between a limiter/compressor and a boosting in that area (80-120). I don't want to sound like a cocky, but I'm also sharing this in case it helps someone: but those channels like Dash, Projektor, Ollie, and so on, are very helpful but also we have to be aware that they are mid-range producers. There is a considerable difference in their kicks compared to the pros. I am aware that there are different types of kicks (Loud, as one of the best examples) but in all of them there is an internal integrity that you do not find in those channels. There is some technique that we are missing. Or as you say, the synthesis needs more work. -I don't close myself to that possibility, because you know, I don't know what I'm failing at. But in the Eclip video I mentioned, I heard its synthesis and early processing, and my kick sounds with the same integrity as even those steps. He himself noted ans said that his kick was still weak and it still needed processing to harden it. I've already done everything; I'll try parallel compression in the area you told me about (80-120), and also dividing the kick into L-M-H zones and add some saturation. I don't know what else I could do to achieve that solidity. Thank you and thanks folks, I hope there are more comments :/
And Jens haha, at this point I'm thinking for some meditation to get some answers hehe

[OscSync]

Yes, that's just what I do. This is what the Rbass does, but I don't like how it raises the pitch and it's better to do it between a limiter/compressor and a boosting in that area (80-120). I don't want to sound like a cocky, but I'm also sharing this in case it helps someone: but those channels like Dash, Projektor, Ollie, and so on, are very helpful but also we have to be aware that they are mid-range producers. There is a considerable difference in their kicks compared to the pros. I am aware that there are different types of kicks (Loud, as one of the best examples) but in all of them there is an internal integrity that you do not find in those channels. There is some technique that we are missing. Or as you say, the synthesis needs more work. -I don't close myself to that possibility, because you know, I don't know what I'm failing at. But in the Eclip video I mentioned, I heard its synthesis and early processing, and my kick sounds with the same integrity as even those steps. He himself noted ans said that his kick was still weak and it still needed processing to harden it. I've already done everything; I'll try parallel compression in the area you told me about (80-120), and also dividing the kick into L-M-H zones and add some saturation. I don't know what else I could do to achieve that solidity. Thank you and thanks folks, I hope there are more comments :/
And Jens haha, at this point I'm thinking for some meditation to get some answers hehe

I'm eagerly following along then.
And yep fully agree, Loud kicks are next level.

[Samiver]

Haven't got a clue about psytrance kicks but if it's anything like techno I would try some saturation then eq. I use the black box and then adjust the wet/dry to taste.

Might not be a thing in psytrance but if I wanted to harden/fatten a kick it's one possible solution.

[Pinkfloydian5]

saturation first, ok! I will try! Thank you!

[bmanic]

As with any genre ever it's all about the sum of all parts. The kick will be perceived relative to every other instrument or audio source in the whole mix!

What you are essentially hearing in pro mixes is a good mix which in turn can and will manifest as a kick that has a lot of impact and cuts through.

It's so incredibly easy and common for people to not understand this. Do not focus on just a single element, you need to consider absolutely everything. If there is any other instrument that has energy in the 50 to 300Hz frequency range (and in the 2 to 10kHz where the "click" can be found) and it's messing with the phase of the transient of the kick, the kick will feel "weaker" no matter what processing you do to it.

If you are only comparing kicks in isolation, meaning there is absolutely nothing else playing, then it's a different matter. Then it's down to the sample content itself mainly and of course also the processing.. but for 99% of the time, if you are talking about a kick within a mix, the mix quality itself is by far the biggest contributor.

To put it bluntly: If your mix doesn't compete with the pro mixes, as a whole in general, then neither will your kick, no matter how much you try to process it.

[Ploki]

Echoing what bmanic said.
I think you are overthinking and overprocessing.
kick synth + sample layer and necessary processing, what you described is overkill

Also EQs will ring or pre ring (if you use narrow boosts) which will soften the kick, so much EQ will inevitably kill it.
You can add 2nd harmonic by synthesis or some good distortion


But to add: all pass filter on kicks goes hard.

[Pinkfloydian5]

Yes, I think that: I overprocessed, but you know, had to try stuff, to improvise to reaching that solidicity. But pro producers (at least in psytrance), usually uses a good number of vsts -some of multiband transient shapers, maybe for depth a multiband compressor, limiters, eq of course. Kick and bass in psytrance are super processed. But thank you for the reminder, to put in balance and keep it simple in order to not messing up. I also will try those, specially the filtering and the distortion in the 2nd harmonic. Really thanks bro-

[plexuss]

"Saturation" will do to a kick the opposite of what you are aiming for. Think about it. Think about what distortion will do the signal and how that will interact with all the other sources.