Latest News: Bitwig updates Bitwig Studio to 5.2
A thought experiment about Bitwig pricing
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 909 posts since 7 Nov, 2017
Interesting thought experiment... What is the average annual cost of upkeep for your DAW? Assuming you want every new feature as soon as it's rolled out?
Bitwig has been developing *very* rapidly, putting out a "point release" (2.0, 2.1, 2.2, etc.) very rapidly, at a pace of roughly one point release every 3-4 months. The point releases have been fairly monumental each time. For example in 2.3 we got new warping modes that are arguably cleaner/better than Ableton's. In 2.4 we got an entirely revamped Sampler instrument that is crazy good. In 2.5 we got incredibly impactful changes to plugin handling and memory management, plus "slip editing" for audio and MIDI clips. And other nice bells and whistles alongside these major improvements. And 3.0 is due out within the next 3 months and will bring "The Grid", which is hella-impactful!
By contrast, Ableton was putting out new major releases about once per year prior to Live 8, and then the jump to Live 9 took 4 YEARS, and the jump to Live 10 took 5 YEARS.
Bitwig's payment model is the one-time price for the version you originally buy ($299 right now during this sale), plus a 169 per year "upgrade plan". Which you can often buy on sale around the Black Friday - Christmas period. And which doesn't take effect until you want to activate it. So, for example, you could buy the upgrade plan when it's on sale, but hold onto the code until Bitwig comes out with some new feature you really really want. And then you activate the Upgrade Plan code, and for 12 months from THAT point forward, you automatically get every new upgrade for free. The point here is that you don't need to actually spend $169 per year on Bitwig.... you can string out your upgrade activations and end up spending less per year on average.
Meanwhile, the upgrade price from Live 9 to Live 10 was $239. (I can't remember the upgrade prices among the earlier versions.
So let's do a little math, assuming you pay the Bitwig upgrade price every year so that you always get the newest features as soon as they're available. Let's look at a 10 year period of ownership. That's 9 purchases of Bitwig's upgrade package, compared to 3 upgrade prices for Ableton (10 years ago we were still in Live 7):
Bitwig = 299 + (169 * 9) = $182 per year over 10 years
Ableton = $750 + (239 * 3) = $146 per year over 10 years
BUT... Those comparison upkeep costs assume that Ableton will continue its incredibly slow upgrade pace of "every 3-4 years, on average". If Ableton responds to competitive pressure by rolling out major paid updates on a more frequent cadence, that $146/year upkeep cost starts increasing.
Bitwig has been developing *very* rapidly, putting out a "point release" (2.0, 2.1, 2.2, etc.) very rapidly, at a pace of roughly one point release every 3-4 months. The point releases have been fairly monumental each time. For example in 2.3 we got new warping modes that are arguably cleaner/better than Ableton's. In 2.4 we got an entirely revamped Sampler instrument that is crazy good. In 2.5 we got incredibly impactful changes to plugin handling and memory management, plus "slip editing" for audio and MIDI clips. And other nice bells and whistles alongside these major improvements. And 3.0 is due out within the next 3 months and will bring "The Grid", which is hella-impactful!
By contrast, Ableton was putting out new major releases about once per year prior to Live 8, and then the jump to Live 9 took 4 YEARS, and the jump to Live 10 took 5 YEARS.
Bitwig's payment model is the one-time price for the version you originally buy ($299 right now during this sale), plus a 169 per year "upgrade plan". Which you can often buy on sale around the Black Friday - Christmas period. And which doesn't take effect until you want to activate it. So, for example, you could buy the upgrade plan when it's on sale, but hold onto the code until Bitwig comes out with some new feature you really really want. And then you activate the Upgrade Plan code, and for 12 months from THAT point forward, you automatically get every new upgrade for free. The point here is that you don't need to actually spend $169 per year on Bitwig.... you can string out your upgrade activations and end up spending less per year on average.
Meanwhile, the upgrade price from Live 9 to Live 10 was $239. (I can't remember the upgrade prices among the earlier versions.
So let's do a little math, assuming you pay the Bitwig upgrade price every year so that you always get the newest features as soon as they're available. Let's look at a 10 year period of ownership. That's 9 purchases of Bitwig's upgrade package, compared to 3 upgrade prices for Ableton (10 years ago we were still in Live 7):
Bitwig = 299 + (169 * 9) = $182 per year over 10 years
Ableton = $750 + (239 * 3) = $146 per year over 10 years
BUT... Those comparison upkeep costs assume that Ableton will continue its incredibly slow upgrade pace of "every 3-4 years, on average". If Ableton responds to competitive pressure by rolling out major paid updates on a more frequent cadence, that $146/year upkeep cost starts increasing.
- Banned
- 2288 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada
good post. interesting comparison. now we should compare the other DAW vendors and see what the actual prices are.
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Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt
Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 909 posts since 7 Nov, 2017
If someone else wants to, that's perfectly fine! But for me, my universe revolves around the question of "Bitwig vs Ableton". Why? Because I'm a bass music producer. I have zero interest in any of the other major DAWs because they're all designed for a different age and workflow. They're built for workflow where you record many analog/organic instrument performances from bands/ensembles of performing musicians. Electronic music producers, Hip Hop, Pop, etc. producers don't need (nor want, really) that old-school workflow.
The only DAWs that are built squarely around "loop based" and "lone producer" workflow are Ableton, Bitwig, and FL Studio. And Ableton/Bitwig distinguish themselves from FL Studio in that both Ableton and Bitwig are optimized for HEAVY sound design. (Which is especially important for electronic music producers.)
- Banned
- 2288 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada
What is a "bass producer"?Yokai wrote: βSat Mar 09, 2019 3:02 pmIf someone else wants to, that's perfectly fine! But for me, my universe revolves around the question of "Bitwig vs Ableton". Why? Because I'm a bass music producer. I have zero interest in any of the other major DAWs because they're all designed for a different age and workflow. They're built for workflow where you record many analog/organic instrument performances from bands/ensembles of performing musicians. Electronic music producers, Hip Hop, Pop, etc. producers don't need (nor want, really) that old-school workflow.
The only DAWs that are built squarely around "loop based" and "lone producer" workflow are Ableton, Bitwig, and FL Studio. And Ableton/Bitwig distinguish themselves from FL Studio in that both Ableton and Bitwig are optimized for HEAVY sound design. (Which is especially important for electronic music producers.)
BTW.. with this statement, "Electronic music producers, Hip Hop, Pop, etc. producers don't need (nor want, really) that old-school workflow."
I totally disagree with you, but oh well, it doesn't really matter, i am just some anonymous shmo on a forum on the Internet.
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Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt
Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt
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- KVRian
- 628 posts since 4 Feb, 2017
Add 3 more years and the difference is way bigger.
Bitwig = 299 + (169 * 12) = $179 per year over 13 years
Ableton = $750 + (239 * 3) = $113 per year over 13 years
Reaper = almost free compared to those two.
I don't know about other DAWs and I couldn't care less.
Look at the big picture instead of only focusing on Ableton Live. Not every Bitwig user has a history with Live.
I know Bitwig is not the cheapest. Neither are a lot of the plugins and hardware I use. In comparison to those costs, Bitwig is also almost free.
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Bitwig = 299 + (169 * 12) = $179 per year over 13 years
Ableton = $750 + (239 * 3) = $113 per year over 13 years
Reaper = almost free compared to those two.
I don't know about other DAWs and I couldn't care less.
Look at the big picture instead of only focusing on Ableton Live. Not every Bitwig user has a history with Live.
I know Bitwig is not the cheapest. Neither are a lot of the plugins and hardware I use. In comparison to those costs, Bitwig is also almost free.
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- KVRAF
- 25702 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
So far my two Bitwig renewals have averaged $135 per... not $169.
Also, over the life of Ableton Live, it has averaged a paid upgrade at a rate under 2 years per. I believe the recent 4 years gap (twice) was possible because so many of the Ableton users were buying a Push and then a Push 2. That provided lots of income. Now the existing user base is saturated. So my guess is it is going to be more often again.
Also, over the life of Ableton Live, it has averaged a paid upgrade at a rate under 2 years per. I believe the recent 4 years gap (twice) was possible because so many of the Ableton users were buying a Push and then a Push 2. That provided lots of income. Now the existing user base is saturated. So my guess is it is going to be more often again.
- KVRian
- 1303 posts since 7 Dec, 2017
I don't know why people are assuming the future of Bitwig's pricing scheme.
-JH
- KVRAF
- 8911 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
Future vs. feature? They are both in a comparable price range as opposed to Reaper or maybe Ardour. If price would be the only argument all the world would run Ardour... One could also argue that Bitwigs DAW features are for free and you pay for the synths...
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- KVRAF
- 2547 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
I almost bought Bitwig in the last sale,my reason for not going ahead was purely pragmatic. If I decided after X number of months that I did not want it, I would have to list it as --- "Bitwig for sale, X number of months remaining"----
I bought Studio One Pro instead, and although the next version will come along at some point,at least its not a fixed date.
The error of all these pricing experiments is that it assumes someone is going to stick with the product.
I bought Studio One Pro instead, and although the next version will come along at some point,at least its not a fixed date.
The error of all these pricing experiments is that it assumes someone is going to stick with the product.
- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
I'm frankly tired of those $$$ discussions...
If you're poor or maybe a kid / student, then obviously get the cheapest one to buy or maintain, which would be Reaper and FL respectively. Or pirate, if you're so inclined...
If you're a pro making a living from music, then estimate your earning potential properly and choose your tools accordingly and probably don't upgrade it at every opportunity - if it works and generates money, then it works. I'm aware of many pros who are still working on a DAW that's 1-2 versions behind.
If you're a hobbyist - like me - then just set aside part of your income to support the software that gives you most joy and makes your creative juices flowing. DAWs are way cheaper than cars, yachts or playing golf. And - for hobby - I'm not gonna settle for a DAW which makes me complain constantly or look with envy to other software, only because it's $100 cheaper to maintain over 5 years. That's laughable.
If you're poor or maybe a kid / student, then obviously get the cheapest one to buy or maintain, which would be Reaper and FL respectively. Or pirate, if you're so inclined...
If you're a pro making a living from music, then estimate your earning potential properly and choose your tools accordingly and probably don't upgrade it at every opportunity - if it works and generates money, then it works. I'm aware of many pros who are still working on a DAW that's 1-2 versions behind.
If you're a hobbyist - like me - then just set aside part of your income to support the software that gives you most joy and makes your creative juices flowing. DAWs are way cheaper than cars, yachts or playing golf. And - for hobby - I'm not gonna settle for a DAW which makes me complain constantly or look with envy to other software, only because it's $100 cheaper to maintain over 5 years. That's laughable.
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- KVRAF
- 2547 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
How is it silly? It's a matter of personal preference so if anything it's subjective, not silly.
- KVRAF
- 8911 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
I know the times when software was much more expensive than cars or even a yacht...
Well, my last car I bought for 800β¬...(long gone though...; - )
Well, my last car I bought for 800β¬...(long gone though...; - )
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- KVRAF
- 2547 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
Whats the point of comparisons if its not like for like ?
Personally, its not about Bitwig, I like the software, but dislike their business model, so I shall not be buying. Its about the effect that their model will have on other vendors who might be tempted to follow Bitwigs lead. I own a Tracktion license and I have upgraded quite often, but now they have pretty much made it a yearly upgrade I shall pass from now on.