Synth/Piano idea: Modelling the movement of the piano hammer with the pressure parameter

[SunshineInABag]

Hi all!

I've been dreaming about using a synth/piano that would work a bit like a piano, mechanically. What I mean by this is that there is no note triggered until "the hammer hits the string". In the case of MPE instruments I imagine this would work by mapping the 'note trigger' to when the pressure parameter reaches a particular threshold. This would allow for playing the instrument like a piano where you never have to lift your fingers from the pads and can continue striking "the strings" of the MPE instrument.

I'd imagine this would entail a really interesting playing feel.

Do any of you know of any MPE-enabled instruments that function like this or perhaps of a way to mod Ableton's behaviour to work like this?

Cheers!

[Rune_7s]

That's an interesting concept. I'm pretty sure that would be easy to set up in an Equator2 patch, and very likely using the new Noisy 2 synth as well, since it's most lauded feature set are conditional triggers.

EDIT: trying it out in Equator2 now, will report back soon...

[SunshineInABag]

Very cool! Am very curious to hear about your results, I don't have Equator2 myself tho (yet). I was considering programming something in Max4Live, should be relatively doable.

[Roger_Linn]

I’m not quite sure I fully understand what you’re suggesting, but it seems that the result would be to reduce LinnStrument’s sensitivity to light touches such that you’d have to press hard to trigger any note. However, if you are able to code it, please post a video here showing the musical benefit.

[Rune_7s]

I just created a patch on Equator2 that triggers a piano note when pressure is pressed down to what feels about a quarter of the way. There's no way to control velocity when doing this, at least not without far more trickery than I'm willing to spend on this concept. It honestly doesn't feel any different than using regular strikes to trigger notes on the Linnstrument, since one can already place their fingers upon the pads and exert a small amount of pressure without triggering a note.

[SunshineInABag]

I just created a ...

Ok, thanks for trying! Sad to hear it didn't work out

I’m not quite sure I fully understand what you’re suggesting, but it seems that the result would be to reduce LinnStrument’s sensitivity to light touches such that you’d have to press hard to trigger any note. However, if you are able to code it, please post a video here showing the musical benefit.

Hmmm, so the ideal scenario would be that the velocity would be a function of the time it takes to travel the distance from 1 (when touch is registered) to the threshold (e.g. 100). Perhaps, it could result in a velocity curve that feels slightly different. Speculating a bit further, I guess you could have two instruments working in tandem, one that is present constantly while resting your hands on the pads, and one that only activates the envelope of the instrument once you hit the threshold (besides, I also just find it a satisfying thought imagining the look of the piano hammer location being completely in sync with the pressure exerted on the pad haha).

Looking at the Noisy 2 instrument, this seems to be what they're doing with their MPE implementation.

The benefit of making it work in Ableton would be that it would work across all instruments both MPE and -non since the pressure signal is converted to per-note velocity.

Will post if I manage to make it work!

[Roger_Linn]

Hmmm, so the ideal scenario would be that the velocity would be a function of the time it takes to travel the distance from 1 (when touch is registered) to the threshold (e.g. 100). Perhaps, it could result in a velocity curve that feels slightly different. Speculating a bit further, I guess you could have two instruments working in tandem, one that is present constantly while resting your hands on the pads, and one that only activates the envelope of the instrument once you hit the threshold (besides, I also just find it a satisfying thought imagining the look of the piano hammer location being completely in sync with the pressure exerted on the pad haha).

Looking at the Noisy 2 instrument, this seems to be what they're doing with their MPE implementation.

LinnStrument derives velocity by multiple fast pressure measurements of the initial strike of a pad, which is what all pad-based devices do. Piano keyboards do it differently, by measuring the time the key takes to travel between 2 electrical contacts.

Also, note that LinnStrument provides 3 response curves for both velocity and pressure, but all curves maintain highest sensitivity to the light touch, merely prioritizing light, medium or heavy touches in the response curve.

The issue is that I don't think people would see any benefit in a feature that requires them to strike a pad with high force.

Yes, some synth sounds combine two sounds, for example an electric piano sound using velocity plus a string sound using pressure. There is such a sound in our Surge XT library: LinnStrument MPE > Keys folder > "EP + Pad". I'm not aware of any synth that offers a sound in which the velocity response is intentionally limited to hard strikes only.

Also, if you're interested in requiring a hard press for pressure response, you can use LinnStrument's Aftertouch feature (Global Settings > Pressure Sens column > Aftertouch), which simulates the Aftertouch feature of MIDI piano keyboards, sending pressure data only after the key is pressed to 85% of full force.

[SunshineInABag]

Hmmm, so the ideal scenario would be that the velocity would be a function of the time it takes to travel the distance from 1 (when touch is registered) to the threshold (e.g. 100). Perhaps, it could result in a velocity curve that feels slightly different. Speculating a bit further, I guess you could have two instruments working in tandem, one that is present constantly while resting your hands on the pads, and one that only activates the envelope of the instrument once you hit the threshold (besides, I also just find it a satisfying thought imagining the look of the piano hammer location being completely in sync with the pressure exerted on the pad haha).

Looking at the Noisy 2 instrument, this seems to be what they're doing with their MPE implementation.

LinnStrument derives velocity by multiple fast pressure measurements of the initial strike of a pad, which is what all ...

Thanks for your extensive response Roger! I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, I had my Linnstrument stolen so I've only been able to check these things out on my Push 3. But will check out the Surge XT instrument you mention.

I had a bit of a longer look at the Noisy 2 synth, and I think the dynamic triggers of that synth are exactly what I meant (but struggled to explain, am afraid ...), that is where an envelope is triggered as soon as the Pressure parameter rises fast enough. Have you had experience with the dynamic triggers of the Noisy 2 synth yet? I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts.

[Roger_Linn]

Have you had experience with the dynamic triggers of the Noisy 2 synth yet? I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts.

Sorry, no. But if you find it useful, post a short video here that demonstrates the merits of the idea in a musical context.