"Cheap" hardware synth for techno?

[isuckatproducing]

Perhaps take a look at the IK Uno Synth Pro X....which can also be controlled in the DAW via a VST plugin.

Will take a look.
I need something with noise generator and fast envelopes for rolling bass lines if that makes sense.

I'm looking for this kind of sounds mostly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiGcaZlSdnU

The saw sound that starts from beginning actually comes from Prophet hardware, but I believe it's super expensive.

EDIT: this high pitched arp is also a Prophet.

This is a type of bass sound that could really come from almost any synth. Surprising you couldn't get it out of a Bass Station 2, as it's a very capable synth, that sounds great, IMO.

You might not want to hear this, but maybe it's you, you, you're the problem. It's you. It's OK. We all start somewhere. I've been doing this crap since the early 80s and I sucked for such a long time because it was so hard to get a hold of anything decent.

Remember, what you are hearing above is absolutely not a naked Prophet. Also, using the name Prophet doesn't give that much information, because Dave Smith called almost all his polyphonic instruments Prophet Something. There's even a Prophet 2000 that was a sampler. It can be frustrating not being able to nail a sound you hear on a record, but who knows how much compression, EQ, effects, or even layers, it has.

In all honesty, unless you're craving a different type of work flow that is more hands-on, I would not leap into buying a hardware synth just yet. There are plenty of great sounding plugins that do the trick. I bought each hardware instrument in my studio because they offered some unique attribute, not because I wasn't able to get a killer bass sound out of The Legend, Repro, or any number of great plugins. Watch as many tutorials as you can and learn enough so that you can change your forum handle to "iusedtosuckatproducing."

Here are the analog emulations I think are stellar. I own these, even though I have 6 great hardware analogs, including a Prophet 6.

The Legend (really the HZ version is the one to get, amazing)
Repro
OB-E (there's a cheap version too that's the same engine but with limited control of parameters)
Oddity 3

I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting at the moment, but those are widely considered some of the best.

If you really are hanker'n for hardware, I'd recommend...

Anything from Behringer. Really. They all sound really good to me. Choose your flavor. You will need an interface to get audio into your computer, which frankly you will want anyway. They're a bit too simple for my needs, but they will give you very good imitations of the classics.

IK Uno. Any model. I have the X Pro Sounds fantastic.

Waldorf Pulse 2. Lots going on, sounds great.

Bass Station 2. I know you didn't like it, but I guarantee that you can get great sounds out of it, and running the headphone out into the audio input gives some of the best feedback sound I've ever heard on any synth. (must crank input gain up)

Moog stuff is great, especially if you can find a decent deal on a used one. That said, I've always found them to be a bit more expensive than I think they're worth. My "Moog" is a Studio Electronics ATC-X, which I think it a better instrument than any of the Phatty range. Hard to find used, though, and they're also a bit pricey. I did have a Sub Phatty that sounded really good, but that might be out of your range.

Never said I couldn't get it out of BS2, I returned the synth quickly after realising how limiting it is, the headache of working with hardware, build quality issues, and sound that sounded like any soft synth out there. (except filter, it did sound FAT).

Most of this Prophet sounds comes from FX, saturation, distortion, EQ, etc.

In the end if you know what you are doing and have proper mixdown, no one will be able to tell "oh this is the 5k$ moog sound'.

I've just listened to audio engineer who mixed tracks for biggest producers and she did it with a Macbook, audio interface and a pair of headphones. Those tracks are being played on biggest festivals.

Hans Zimmer has a modular synth that takes whole wall, yet he composed score for Batman using Zebra2 (on top of orchestra).

EDIT:
Same goes for producers like deadmau5 or Boris Brejcha. Although deadmau5 has equipment worth millions probably, he uses init presets from Serum, and can you tell it's not analogue? Probably not.

[kritikon]

Likewise. I watched that vid and it's his personal experience/opinion. Means nothing for my experience. I can similarly make a list of pros and cons, and if I'm honest the sw pros would likely also be a fair bit longer than the hw pros. But my cons list would have 2 things at the top and one of those at the top of the hw list that blows anything sw has out of the argument for me.
1. Pain
2. Fun

I would be in severe pain if I used sw all the time. I simply cannot handle diddling with a mouse or most other input devices for any length of time. That ends any argument for me. I'm not going to sit here in pain to use my musical devices. You can blather on about what sw does all day but my wrists fkn hurt, so end of story.

Fun. The reason I do anything musical. The reason I use hw. The reason I don't use sw for as many things as practical for me. For me the hw is fun, for me the sw is a PITA buzzkiller.

Which is obvs not the case for many others. They don't care, and neither do I, and if I may say, you started out not obviously trolling, but it most obvs is now a troll thread. You wanted an analogue synth, and now you're poking anyone that likes analogue? The mask slipped, needs pulling up again mate.

[pekbro]

Modular is where the HW rises way above SW due to computational overhead. *I have a $20k modular system, so I can say that with some experience.

[isuckatproducing]

Likewise. I watched that vid and it's his personal experience/opinion. Means nothing for my experience. I can similarly make a list of pros and cons, and if I'm honest the sw pros would likely also be a fair bit longer than the hw pros. But my cons list would have 2 things at the top and one of those at the top of the hw list that blows anything sw has out of the argument for me.
1. Pain
2. Fun

I would be in severe pain if I used sw all the time. I simply cannot handle diddling with a mouse or most other input devices for any length of time. That ends any argument for me. I'm not going to sit here in pain to use my musical devices. You can blather on about what sw does all day but my wrists fkn hurt, so end of story.

Fun. The reason I do anything musical. The reason I use hw. The reason I don't use sw for as many things as practical for me. For me the hw is fun, for me the sw is a PITA buzzkiller.

Which is obvs not the case for many others. They don't care, and neither do I, and if I may say, you started out not obviously trolling, but it most obvs is now a troll thread. You wanted an analogue synth, and now you're poking anyone that likes analogue? The mask slipped, needs pulling up again mate.

How am I trolling? I've done research (a lot) and heard blind tests and the people who owned the hardware and software emulations couldn't tell the difference in most cases.

Sound and workflow are two different things. I wanted hardware mostly for having to play with knobs etc. instead of a trackpad.

[zerocrossing]

I recommend this talk if you have some time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk-3vXOAtVo

Why would anybody give a flying f### what he or any other synthfluencer thinks? I don't own hardware because someone else thinks I should and I would never make a decision to sell any of my hardware because of someone else's opinion. Instead of watching youtube vids, turn on your brain and think for yourself.

I have had a hardware synth already, and I have listened to blind demos. On top of that song consist of more tracks than one, so no one can tell the difference in the end anyway. But keep coping if it helps you.

I think you miss the point of what that interview was about. The point wasn't that analog emulatations could sound more analog than an analog synthesizer, as that doesn't even make any sense, but that digital can make sounds that are more analogous to natural waveforms.

"Analog synthesizers" are really just a flavor. They are unnecessary to get good sounds, as many great synthesizers are all digital. They're not even the only way to get the flavor of an analog synthesizer, anymore, as digital has become very adept at mimicking the sound. They've been pretty good since 2011, the year Diva came out, but really started becoming hard to tell the difference between when Repro came out. Differences are often very slight, and even when they are noticeable, it's often not a difference that is worse. I've often replaced the hardware analog in a track with a plugin because the plugin had a character that was ultimately more suitable for what I was doing. It's also nice to have a way of automating all the parameters in a very easy way.

My recommendation is to not really shop by technology, but shop with your ears. Buy what sounds great to you. Buy what you have fun using. Everything sounds damn great these days. (well, almost everything) Listen to as many demos as you can, and be prepared to possibly return something, because there's nothing like having an instrument in your studio to let you know what it's really like.

[zerocrossing]

Modular is where the HW rises way above SW due to computational overhead. *I have a $20k modular system, so I can say that with some experience.

This is either important, or not important, depending on the user. If you are looking to do very complex stuff, it's true. A good software modular, like Softube Modular, will have you running out of CPU pretty quickly, especially if you have other stuff that's CPU hungry going on. That said, the majority of sounds I've heard on hit records do not require the power of a modular system.

[isuckatproducing]

Modular is where the HW rises way above SW due to computational overhead. *I have a $20k modular system, so I can say that with some experience.

This is either important, or not important, depending on the user. If you are looking to do very complex stuff, it's true. A good software modular, like Softube Modular, will have you running out of CPU pretty quickly, especially if you have other stuff that's CPU hungry going on. That said, the majority of sounds I've heard on hit records do not require the power of a modular system.

Agree with your last 2 posts.
I think people get angry when they realise their 50k setup can sound the same with 200$ plugins, if you know what you are doing.

[cryophonik]

I recommend this talk if you have some time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk-3vXOAtVo

Why would anybody give a flying f### what he or any other synthfluencer thinks? I don't own hardware because someone else thinks I should and I would never make a decision to sell any of my hardware because of someone else's opinion. Instead of watching youtube vids, turn on your brain and think for yourself.

I have had a hardware synth already, and I have listened to blind demos. On top of that song consist of more tracks than one, so no one can tell the difference in the end anyway. But keep coping if it helps you.

I never said you or anybody else could or could not tell the difference and I really don't care. I use both hardware and software everyday and I'm coping just fine, thanks.

[isuckatproducing]

I recommend this talk if you have some time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk-3vXOAtVo

Why would anybody give a flying f### what he or any other synthfluencer thinks? I don't own hardware because someone else thinks I should and I would never make a decision to sell any of my hardware because of someone else's opinion. Instead of watching youtube vids, turn on your brain and think for yourself.

I have had a hardware synth already, and I have listened to blind demos. On top of that song consist of more tracks than one, so no one can tell the difference in the end anyway. But keep coping if it helps you.

I never said you or anybody else could or could not tell the difference and I really don't care. I use both hardware and software everyday and I'm coping just fine, thanks.

Well it seems like you take it personally and got upset. So it seems like you do care.
Anyway whatever suits you.

[pekbro]

Modular is where the HW rises way above SW due to computational overhead. *I have a $20k modular system, so I can say that with some experience.

This is either important, or not important, depending on the user. If you are looking to do very complex stuff, it's true. A good software modular, like Softube Modular, will have you running out of CPU pretty quickly, especially if you have other stuff that's CPU hungry going on. That said, the majority of sounds I've heard on hit records do not require the power of a modular system.

Agree with your last 2 posts.
I think people get angry when they realise their 50k setup can sound the same with 200$ plugins, if you know what you are doing.

Absolutely not true, but it all depends on what you want. tbh, sw modulars
don't even work the same way. Im also not angry, i don't care what others
think at all. Recently I got out of the synth buying game for the most part
anyway, not to mention cumulatively, I've spent way more on SW than all
of my HW put together. And yeah, I have prob somewhere around $50k
worth of HW. I can't begin to calculate what I've spent on SW over the
last 20 yrs.

*I like boutique stuff as well, for the bulk of my HW, there is no equivalent in SW.
*The money argument always makes me laugh, folks should try accurate accounting
of all their cumulative SW purchases, I would wager the avg is way higher than
most people would expect. Way higher than HW at any rate...

[cryophonik]

Modular is where the HW rises way above SW due to computational overhead. *I have a $20k modular system, so I can say that with some experience.

This is either important, or not important, depending on the user. If you are looking to do very complex stuff, it's true. A good software modular, like Softube Modular, will have you running out of CPU pretty quickly, especially if you have other stuff that's CPU hungry going on. That said, the majority of sounds I've heard on hit records do not require the power of a modular system.

Agree with your last 2 posts.
I think people get angry when they realise their 50k setup can sound the same with 200$ plugins, if you know what you are doing.

Absolutely not true, but it all depends on what you want. tbh, sw modulars
don't even work the same way. Im also not angry, i don't care what others
think at all. Recently I got out of the synth buying game for the most part
anyway, not to mention cumulatively, I've spent way more on SW than all
of my HW put together. And yeah, I have prob somewhere around $50k
worth of HW. I can't begin to calculate what I've spent on SW over the
last 20 yrs.

*I like boutique stuff as well, for the bulk of my HW, there is no equivalent in SW.
*The money argument always makes me laugh, folks should try accurate accounting
of all their cumulative SW purchases, I would wager the avg is way higher than
most people would expect. Way higher than HW at any rate...

Especially when you consider that hardware can generally be bought secondhand and resold at roughly the same price (or more, if you keep up on your local market) for either no loss or even a profit if you know what you’re doing. I basically built my studio with a “buy-low, sell-high” strategy that required a nominal investment, keeping up with the market, and lots of patience and time. That strategy doesn’t work with software.

But, wow, we’re way off topic now. Did we decide on a techno synth yet?

[pekbro]

shit, I stopped buying HW and I spent at least $5-$600 bucks on SW at a minimum in the last couple months, upgrades, interesting new synths/effects etc.

*I didn't even buy that much..
.
Anyway, ok I'm done OT...

[kritikon]

Agree with your last 2 posts.
I think people get angry when they realise their 50k setup can sound the same with 200$ plugins, if you know what you are doing.

Point us to one single instance where anyone here or anywhere else has got angry about that. Or did you just make that up inside your own head, as you want us to be jealous (which is really weird )? You don't have to justify your choices here, in the same way none of us have to justify our choices. Anyone with a 50k hw set up really couldn't give a flying f**k what someone with $200 plugins is doing. Really. I dunno why you are so hung up about what people with 50k hw setups are doing either...

If you can only afford sw, good on ya. I hope you enjoy making great music with it. Nobody here is going to shit on you for not being rich.
If you can afford big hw setups, good on ya, and I KNOW they enjoy making great music on it. Sadly, some people will shit on them/us for having money.
You ought to know that many here with big hw setups are older and have worked for decades - that is why they have money. We didn't just magic money up out of nowhere. I've been working for over 40 years, saved untold numbers of lives and watched untold numbers of people die - when you've done that, then I'll accept you can sling jealousy and hard luck stories around. I've had periods in my life when I only used sw for various reasons, and I hated it.

[BONES]

I watched that vid and it's his personal experience/opinion. Means nothing for my experience.

That's a pretty dismissive attitude. We're talking about a guy who used to design/engineer analogue synths and modules for a living. A guy with 50+ years of relevant industry experience and a far greater depth of knowledge than you and I will ever have on the subject. But because his opinion doesn't align with yours, it "means nothing". It's particularly interesting coming from a guy who owns both analogue and digital hardware.

I would be in severe pain if I used sw all the time. I simply cannot handle diddling with a mouse or most other input devices for any length of time.

How is using a mouse any more painful than turning knobs and flicking switches? Surely it's just a matter of improving the ergonomics of your deskspace or finding an alternative input device? Maybe a Wacom tablet and stylus or a trackball mouse?

For me the hw is fun, for me the sw is a PITA buzzkiller.

I don't understand this at all. For 20+ years, hardware was the bane of my existence. It made writing, recording and performing an order of magnitude more difficult than it ever needed to be. I can't tell you how many hundreds of hours I spent trying to optimise everything for the best experience, time and energy I'd much rather have put into writing and performing. Playing my Uno Pro or my Analog Keys or my Korg microKeys 2 feels pretty much like the same experience to me but what's involved in getting everything ready to play is where hardware starts to annoy me. I have to have a mixer and I need powerboards to plug it all in and hundreds of dollars worth of leads to connect it all up.

When I switch to my Erae Touch, the software experience goes to another level where my hardware can't follow. Sadly, arthritis makes playing the Erae and my Roli stuff far too painful these days, so I've had to give up using them, but that doesn't stop me from acknowledging their superiority when it comes to expressive performance.

[isuckatproducing]

I watched that vid and it's his personal experience/opinion. Means nothing for my experience.

That's a pretty dismissive attitude. We're talking about a guy who used to design/engineer analogue synths and modules for a living. A guy with 50+ years of relevant industry experience and a far greater depth of knowledge than you and I will ever have on the subject. But because his opinion doesn't align with yours, it "means nothing". It's particularly interesting coming from a guy who owns both analogue and digital hardware.

I would be in severe pain if I used sw all the time. I simply cannot handle diddling with a mouse or most other input devices for any length of time.

How is using a mouse any more painful than turning knobs and flicking switches? Surely it's just a matter of improving the ergonomics of your deskspace or finding an alternative input device? Maybe a Wacom tablet and stylus or a trackball mouse?

For me the hw is fun, for me the sw is a PITA buzzkiller.

I don't understand this at all. For 20+ years, hardware was the bane of my existence. It made writing, recording and performing an order of magnitude more difficult than it ever needed to be. I can't tell you how many hundreds of hours I spent trying to optimise everything for the best experience, time and energy I'd much rather have put into writing and performing. Playing my Uno Pro or my Analog Keys or my Korg microKeys 2 feels pretty much like the same experience to me but what's involved in getting everything ready to play is where hardware starts to annoy me. I have to have a mixer and I need powerboards to plug it all in and hundreds of dollars worth of leads to connect it all up.

When I switch to my Erae Touch, the software experience goes to another level where my hardware can't follow. Sadly, arthritis makes playing the Erae and my Roli stuff far too painful these days, so I've had to give up using them, but that doesn't stop me from acknowledging their superiority when it comes to expressive performance.

Agree, won't even comment on other comments because there seems to be some paranoia in there.