The Legend HZ by Synapse Audio now available!

[Niowiad]

Back to the nulling thing between old Legend and HZ.
I tried the demo for a good 40 minutes with no luck.

Even with both set to zero drift, zero saturation, same revision, phase locked to 10 and most other settings matched:
- waveforms were slightly different (very slighty different balance balance between low and high end partials)
- tuning of the same played notes on the two synths was slightly different
- filter opening "drift" was slightly different in timing and strength (HZ seemed a bit more unstable both in the oscillators and filter behavior)

There's probably more, but those things alone would prevented the two sources from nulling even when they were sounding basically indistinguishable.

Unless there's some strong difference in extreme conditions (e.g. high feedback/drive, FM...) which I didn't try yet, the foundations seem to be pretty much the same, and the vastly extended feature set is what really sets them apart.

[Touch The Universe]

How close are you getting to null? Does any of the stream phase out?

In fact, are you asking the impossible? Is there any recreation that perfectly phases out?

[Gam456]

I tried around an hour
For sure, it's a good synth. Unfortunately I'm not impressed

[zvenx]

Figured out what I was doing wrong preventing me from getting the Legend to null with itself.
They do null now.

I also could get Legend HZ to null with itself, but couldn't get it to null with the Legend.

rsp

[kraster]

How close are you getting to null? Does any of the stream phase out?

In fact, are you asking the impossible? Is there any recreation that perfectly phases out?

With a saw wave I could get it to a really thin phasing but nothing close to a null.

On a spectrum analyser there's a good bit of movement in certain frequencies across the spectrum.

There's definitely movement within the waveform itself.

[Touch The Universe]

Figured out what I was doing wrong preventing me from getting the Legend to null with itself.
They do null now.

I also could get Legend HZ to null with itself, but couldn't get it to null with the Legend.

rsp

Care to share, maybe you can help others escape this tedious task

[Niowiad]

How close are you getting to null? Does any of the stream phase out?

In fact, are you asking the impossible? Is there any recreation that perfectly phases out?

Never close enough to reasonably call it so.

At times (and on some specific notes which were tuned closer than others), the result would start by sounding almost phased-out (like a super thin pulse) and evolve into the furthest thing from nulling.

If they had same tuning, same exact waveforms, etc... they'd likely null, but some further tweaking has been done under the hood.
Meaning, it does NOT seem like they only added extra mod-sources and effects for the HZ version, which is what I was actually wondering.

Other people might have better luck with the nulling thing (I tried on the EARLY revision), but for the time being I already satisfied my own curiosity

[zvenx]

Ooh I was just doing something wrong (I had phase at zero (which is free) not 10 which is insync.

They don't completely null looking at meters but inaudible.


Legend vs Legend
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lrcovga0 ... 2rah2&dl=0

Legend vs Legend HZ
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/basdtg54 ... pan46&dl=0

rsp

[Jac459]

Ooh I was just doing something wrong (I had phase at zero (which is free) not 10 which is insync.

They don't completely null looking at meters but inaudible.


Legend vs Legend
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lrcovga0 ... 2rah2&dl=0

Legend vs Legend HZ
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/basdtg54 ... pan46&dl=0

rsp

Interesting, thanks for the effort.

[kenny saunders]

.....

Because for a simple sub bass I don't need all the additions of TLHZ and can therefore have the simpler interface of TL. ....

Did you buy the Legend in the almost 8 years it was available for purchasing?

rsp

What the Hell does that have to do with anything? The upgrade cost of TL to TLHZ works out to the same cost as TLHZ so why does one get both for the same cost, yet the other gets just one for the same cost? Its ridiculous.

What are you on about 'upkeep' for? Not a single person would buy TL if they had already bought TLHZ. How does upkeep from a few programmers compare to to the initial cost and logistics of arranging 100's of people to creat (and update) an orchestral library?

[zvenx]

The Legend has now been discontinued. (though I am sure he will update if OS requirements require it to be done).

The End!!!
rsp

[Niowiad]

I played for a couple more hours with the demo.

Besides the usual "instrument patches" and one-shots, it works especially well as a self-contained "cinematic sequence" machine.
The added oscillators and msegs/seq allow for some complex multi-layered rhythmic patches which could basically stand on their own on synthy cinematic cues.
At that point, a second filter would have emphasized this capability even more, but it is what it is.

The GUI layout is also very nice, it packs A LOT of stuff and still doesn't look messy.
I mean, it looks like a very convenient plugin, like an all-in-one solution for that kind of stuff, without the complexity of (semi)modular monster synths.

Not sure I need a new plugin for that though, even at that reasonable upgrade price.
I already have a metric fuckton of quality softsynths and mostly enjoy using external arpeggiator/sequencers and parameter automations.
But I can see why this could be great for many composers.

[Uncle E]

What the Hell does that have to do with anything? The upgrade cost of TL to TLHZ works out to the same cost as TLHZ so why does one get both for the same cost, yet the other gets just one for the same cost? Its ridiculous.

Let’s call it a thank you present for early supporters.

What are you on about 'upkeep' for? Not a single person would buy TL if they had already bought TLHZ. How does upkeep from a few programmers compare to to the initial cost and logistics of arranging 100's of people to creat (and update) an orchestral library?

I’m the one who said mentioned upkeep, not zvenx. Yes, it costs more to upkeep software than to upkeep a sample library.

[BONES]

Of course no money changed hands, Hz never made a penny, he doesn't need it right?
Is your assertion factual though because judging by the price I'd say it has all the hallmarks of a business agreement, not just a casual exchange as you suggest.

Given that HZ approached Synapse, I'd suggest if any money were to have changed hands, it would have been HZ paying Synapse to do the work. I think the most likely scenario, however, is that they came to a mutual agreement - "we'll make this for you if we can use your name to sell it to the rest of the market" of "if you make this for me, I'll be more than happy to put my name to it, if you think that might help you with sales". A bit of bartering, if you like. Pure speculation of course, it just seems to me the most likely way it would have gone.

When kvr auto inserts an asterix or two in a word that exists in a modern dictionary, that's when you know the gig is up Bones

No, that's how you know what a sad f**king place this really is.

what If someone doesn't want the complexer Legend HZ but the simpler, and yes, cheaper original Legend?

Ditto for Hive 1.2, which is my preferred version, over Hive 2. But you can't buy Hive 1.2 any more, nor do you get access to it when you buy Hive 2. And u-he is a company that employs dozens of people.

Simply asking a simple question as to why they decided to take that option off the table..

Because it's an upgrade, not a new instrument. Synapse is two people, they don't have the resources to maintain multiple versions of everything, across multiple platforms. They'd never get anything else done. Synapse have discontinued many things over the years, as maintenance became too much of a burden - Orion, Scorpion, Junglist, their Poly800 emulation, etc.

[Jac459]

Of course no money changed hands, Hz never made a penny, he doesn't need it right?
Is your assertion factual though because judging by the price I'd say it has all the hallmarks of a business agreement, not just a casual exchange as you suggest.

Given that HZ approached Synapse, I'd suggest if any money were to have changed hands, it would have been HZ paying Synapse to do the work. I think the most likely scenario, however, is that they came to a mutual agreement - "we'll make this for you if we can use your name to sell it to the rest of the market" of "if you make this for me, I'll be more than happy to put my name to it, if you think that might help you with sales". A bit of bartering, if you like. Pure speculation of course, it just seems to me the most likely way it would have gone.

When kvr auto inserts an asterix or two in a word that exists in a modern dictionary, that's when you know the gig is up Bones

No, that's how you know what a sad f**king place this really is.

what If someone doesn't want the complexer Legend HZ but the simpler, and yes, cheaper original Legend?

Ditto for Hive 1.2, which is my preferred version, over Hive 2. But you can't buy Hive 1.2 any more, nor do you get access to it when you buy Hive 2. And u-he is a company that employs dozens of people.

Simply asking a simple question as to why they decided to take that option off the table..

Because it's an upgrade, not a new instrument. Synapse is two people, they don't have the resources to maintain multiple versions of everything, across multiple platforms. They'd never get anything else done. Synapse have discontinued many things over the years, as maintenance became too much of a burden - Orion, Scorpion, Junglist, their Poly800 emulation, etc.

If I have to bet, I would more bet on a percentage that HZ asked on the sales. As I guess he really participated to the conception and promotion.
That would be the most fair on both side....