Hi,
I purchased the WahWah and have a few comments about how it is working out for me.
To begin, I was enthused at how simple the effect is, but after using the FX for a while it seems to leave a lot to be desired.
To be fair, I have several real-life Wahwahs, and a couple of analog circuit auto filter pedals that I have been happy with for years and years, but I have been hoping to find a DSP substitute that combined great-sounding auto filter and a wah pedal features. The Hornet WahWah would seem to be ideal.
Here's a list of observations:
1) With Reaper 6.6.8 I kept finding that my current pedal position was not saved when I saved, closed, and reopened a project. I went ahead and saved a FX preset for the project but the pedal position was still lost each time I closed the project. Then I set my saved preset to the Default for the WahWah, and the pedal position was still lost each time I closed the project. I finally assigned an automation envelope to the pedal position and now the position is actually saved with the project. I could have also used the MIDI channel 11 and CC data, but I had that turned off. The current settings of every other VST I use are saved without making the extra effort. Why is the Wah different?
2) The analog switch seems silly. In my opinion, the VST could be coded to sound as intended and leave it at that.
3) The Comp. or "compensation" switch just seems to normalize the peaks and lower the volume to a nearly useless level. The gain staging is nothing like analog gain structure. It seems like the analog switch and the compensation switch should be combined into a process that mimics the saturation, compression, and limiting that occurs in an analog circuit, which is starving for B+ and has run out of headroom. Sending spiky peaks to the output and having the option to turn everything down doesn't seem to replicate the character of any Wah or filter pedal I have ever heard. I am currently running the Wahwah output without the "Comp." selected, carefully gain staging the WahWah's input to trigger the bandpass response, and slamming the Wahwah's output into a free-standing VST compressor just to make the FX sound like a physical world Wah Wah. Thank goodness for 64bit playback engines that have the headroom to spare.
4) The Autofilter features seem inadequate or may be inappropriate for the task. If the "Attack" control is indeed an attack control then it does not seem fast enough to be very helpful. With the auto filters I am experienced with, a "Sensitivity" detector defines the threshold for triggering the envelope. I may misunderstand the actual digitized circuit used by the Hornet dsp, but regardless of how it is doing what it does, it does not do it dramatically enough to compare to the auto filters I have used. I have been trying to set the auto feature controls to be useful, but have given up and ended up using MIDI Channel 11 CC data to get the pedal to do the Wah expressively.
5) It would be convenient to have a quick and easy mix or blend feature. This would offer an option not available with a real-life Wah pedal but is oftentimes included in a dedicated Auto Filter.
I already regret making such a less-than-positive critique, but the DAW world seems devoid of a decent Wah or auto filter that acts like the common physical world analogs. The old Kjaerhaus Autofilter is still the best-sounding dsp example I have heard, but I would prefer to use another provider's product. I was hoping the Hornet WahWah might be exceptional. I like its simplicity and it seems to have potential. Maybe some of the comments could be addressed in an update that makes the experience seem more satisfying.
Thank you!
thoughts about the WahWah
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 134 posts since 24 Jun, 2013
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- KVRist
- 463 posts since 18 Feb, 2011 from Italy
Hi, thank you for your comments.
I'll check out the bug you mention, could you please let me know if it's happening with VST or VST3 or both?
Regarding your suggestion, I'm sure you have used a lot of cry babies and I'm pretty sure you know the vast difference in level you have in the pedal between the open and closed position, all this is emulated and coupled with the analog engine it give you distortion.
Since there are some people who don't want that distortion the analog engine can be switched off, the same people complained that the level at the close position then was too high so we created the gain compensation switch the turns down the level to avoid damaging speakers when fast moving the pedal.
That said, I think the correct way to use the effect is with comet turned off and with analog turned on.
Regarding the auto wah effect, attack and release are tuned to work accordingly to my personal taste (that may not be yours
) and keep in mind that I'm not a guitar player but I used those effects with keyboards and synths in the past. Certainly adding more controls over those envelopes does not hurt so I'll add your suggestions to our feature request list.
The same goes for the dry/wet knob, it's an addition so why not, in the meantime since you use reaper you can use the DAW's build in mix knob.
Thank you once again
Saverio
I'll check out the bug you mention, could you please let me know if it's happening with VST or VST3 or both?
Regarding your suggestion, I'm sure you have used a lot of cry babies and I'm pretty sure you know the vast difference in level you have in the pedal between the open and closed position, all this is emulated and coupled with the analog engine it give you distortion.
Since there are some people who don't want that distortion the analog engine can be switched off, the same people complained that the level at the close position then was too high so we created the gain compensation switch the turns down the level to avoid damaging speakers when fast moving the pedal.
That said, I think the correct way to use the effect is with comet turned off and with analog turned on.
Regarding the auto wah effect, attack and release are tuned to work accordingly to my personal taste (that may not be yours
) and keep in mind that I'm not a guitar player but I used those effects with keyboards and synths in the past. Certainly adding more controls over those envelopes does not hurt so I'll add your suggestions to our feature request list.The same goes for the dry/wet knob, it's an addition so why not, in the meantime since you use reaper you can use the DAW's build in mix knob.
Thank you once again
Saverio
My Audio plugins http://www.hornetplugins.com
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 134 posts since 24 Jun, 2013
Hi,
Thanks for being gracious about the comments.
I have only installed the win x64.vst3 version.
I agree that a wah pedal can have a great range of output. If I recall correctly the gain of the band passed peak varies between 0 and nearly 20dB depending on the combination of the input signal and pedal position. This value looks like a lot on paper but doesn't seem like much when compared to the gain in a typical preamp or the headroom in a 24bit circuit. A WahWah VST effect can sound loud without the peaks clipping the 24bit output path to the speakers. When the physical world Wah circuit is driven there is significant negative feedback, saturation and voltage sag that compresses the signal and tends to fatten the sound while reducing the amplitude of the peak that may be predicted by calculation or observed on a scope with a nominal level test tone. The function of the compressor VST that I am placing on the output of the WahWah seems to be required to provide the character missing from the output of the WahWah VST. I think the model needs more than just some digitized analog saturation or digitized distortion effect, it needs to be sweetened with some modeled analog compression.
For the auto wah features, many auto filters use an adjustable Threshold setting rather than an adjustable Attack rate to trigger the envelope. I may completely misunderstand what is going on behind the WahWah VST attack setting, but if it is a traditional Attack rate setting then I would encourage you to consider testing a Threshold adjuster. An excellent physical world auto filter example is the DOD FX25 Envelope Filter pedal. You set the sensitivity to excite the envelope. It is super easy to adjust and super easy to get a full range of response out of it.
Thank you very much for reminding me that REAPER has the mix feature on its FX bins. I had forgotten about this and you simplified my routing with your suggestion.
Thank you!
Thanks for being gracious about the comments.
I have only installed the win x64.vst3 version.
I agree that a wah pedal can have a great range of output. If I recall correctly the gain of the band passed peak varies between 0 and nearly 20dB depending on the combination of the input signal and pedal position. This value looks like a lot on paper but doesn't seem like much when compared to the gain in a typical preamp or the headroom in a 24bit circuit. A WahWah VST effect can sound loud without the peaks clipping the 24bit output path to the speakers. When the physical world Wah circuit is driven there is significant negative feedback, saturation and voltage sag that compresses the signal and tends to fatten the sound while reducing the amplitude of the peak that may be predicted by calculation or observed on a scope with a nominal level test tone. The function of the compressor VST that I am placing on the output of the WahWah seems to be required to provide the character missing from the output of the WahWah VST. I think the model needs more than just some digitized analog saturation or digitized distortion effect, it needs to be sweetened with some modeled analog compression.
For the auto wah features, many auto filters use an adjustable Threshold setting rather than an adjustable Attack rate to trigger the envelope. I may completely misunderstand what is going on behind the WahWah VST attack setting, but if it is a traditional Attack rate setting then I would encourage you to consider testing a Threshold adjuster. An excellent physical world auto filter example is the DOD FX25 Envelope Filter pedal. You set the sensitivity to excite the envelope. It is super easy to adjust and super easy to get a full range of response out of it.
Thank you very much for reminding me that REAPER has the mix feature on its FX bins. I had forgotten about this and you simplified my routing with your suggestion.
Thank you!
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- KVRist
- 52 posts since 12 Jan, 2022
Hi,
thanks for your interest in HoRNet WahWah,
Are you using the latest WahWah version (WahWah 1.3.0)?
What's your OS (macOS, Windows, macOS with Apple Silicon processors), your DAW and which plugin format you use?
Do not forget to submit a support request here.
Best
Maso
thanks for your interest in HoRNet WahWah,
Are you using the latest WahWah version (WahWah 1.3.0)?
What's your OS (macOS, Windows, macOS with Apple Silicon processors), your DAW and which plugin format you use?
Do not forget to submit a support request here.
Best
Maso
your support at HoRNet plugins. Need help? Just open a ticket
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 9 Sep, 2023
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- KVRist
- 52 posts since 12 Jan, 2022
"quoted!"
Hi,
great to know you got it working...
If you need more help about the whawha, do not forget to submit a support request .... best
Maso
your support at HoRNet plugins. Need help? Just open a ticket
