Reason 13 Announced- Sequencer updated!

[jjpscott01]

Cutting edge ?
That was exactly the moment went everyhing went downhill ---> the release of record .
No midi output , and you had to have reason to use it's instruments in side record , Needless to say , Record was a flop .and thus integrated in in reason 6.0 ( + rack extensions )
Propllerheads have been behind the curve for a verry loong time

You have no clue what you're talking about. It didn't go downhill when record was released, that was the beginning of integrating audio recording into Reason in the following versions. And that started their rapid growth as everyone started taking notice and accepting it as a full fledged DAW. They were so profitable they were able to design and release their own audio interface, before everyone and their mom did. It's sad when people try to blur history just to make a point.

Great post. Probably you are correct also.

I think it went downhill with the introduction to be able to use vst. Then people started looking - this vst sounds really good. And this too. And this! Then they started exploring other daws, because the DAW of Reason was maybe a bit lacking? I am just speculating here. Nah. They should have stopped with RE. They really had something going i think. Then they should have gone all out on improving the DAW. Anyway.....

This is the problem with being a DAW software company. For over 10 years, all I heard was the whole world screaming that if Reason just had VST capability it would rule. Then they introduce VST and everyone wines about not having VST3. Then they refine and release VST3 capability(all while doing a complete graphical overhaul I might add) and people say it was better as a closed system.
I myself agree with you and never wanted VST support personally but im just saying being a modern day DAW company would make me pull my hair out.

[Jac459]

I've just come here to say that the 'Reasontalk' forum is run by a guy with an undisclosed business relationship with Reason Studios and has started aggressively censoring most criticism of Reason Studios and the direction of Reason development ahead of the release of version 13.

As a reason user since v1 who's spent thousands on rack extensions I thought my perspective on the situation could be helpful but I can't get past the spam filters here even though there was nothing remotely offensive or spammy about my post. I'm feeling a little censored at the moment.

But yeah, as someone who has personally spent over $10k usd on Reason and will buy 13 the day it comes out I would strongly advise anyone just getting into music production against investing in Reason for reasons it would take a few paragraphs to fully explain.

It has been like that since always. I noticed that anyone saying something negative and even backed up with screenshots is scrubbed. The moderator several times tried to say this was not happening of that it was justified - it wasn't.

There was a thread where someone asked about quality or RS support. I posted there my experience which was quite bad. I had open tickets, unresponded to for 6 months. Then abruptly closed. I reopened, and someone closed. I reported it with screenshots of dates (no info was revealed) - and they deleted the whole thread.

Mind you nothing there was no badmouthing, or calling names. And then I noticed the "#trend" whenever someone posts negatively this guy deletes it.

That forum is more of a Reason Studio product catalog than an actual forum with a completely open discussion.

If posts focus on criticism or make products look bad then they will get scrubbed by the moderator.

The only alternative for you is to open your own forum and let it be free.

Well this isn't the memory I have from the forum. I remember it as a dark dark place with a ton of people upset and full of negativity, calling reason studios a "shit-show" every 2 posts.

I left the forum for this reason...

I think if I were the forum moderator, I would also try to censor or at least organise all this negativity because I think it was preventing any new users to be willing to stay in the forum...

I survived about 500 posts if I remember well and left without looking behind my shoulder.

only to post on KVR which is infinitely worse

Well you can laugh about it but... No

It was not my experience. My experience is that it was way way worse as the people were genuinely sad and bitter.

Here, we are just a couple of assholes making fun at eachother.

[jjpscott01]

I've just come here to say that the 'Reasontalk' forum is run by a guy with an undisclosed business relationship with Reason Studios and has started aggressively censoring most criticism of Reason Studios and the direction of Reason development ahead of the release of version 13.

As a reason user since v1 who's spent thousands on rack extensions I thought my perspective on the situation could be helpful but I can't get past the spam filters here even though there was nothing remotely offensive or spammy about my post. I'm feeling a little censored at the moment.

But yeah, as someone who has personally spent over $10k usd on Reason and will buy 13 the day it comes out I would strongly advise anyone just getting into music production against investing in Reason for reasons it would take a few paragraphs to fully explain.

It has been like that since always. I noticed that anyone saying something negative and even backed up with screenshots is scrubbed. The moderator several times tried to say this was not happening of that it was justified - it wasn't.

There was a thread where someone asked about quality or RS support. I posted there my experience which was quite bad. I had open tickets, unresponded to for 6 months. Then abruptly closed. I reopened, and someone closed. I reported it with screenshots of dates (no info was revealed) - and they deleted the whole thread.

Mind you nothing there was no badmouthing, or calling names. And then I noticed the "#trend" whenever someone posts negatively this guy deletes it.

That forum is more of a Reason Studio product catalog than an actual forum with a completely open discussion.

If posts focus on criticism or make products look bad then they will get scrubbed by the moderator.

The only alternative for you is to open your own forum and let it be free.

Well this isn't the memory I have from the forum. I remember it as a dark dark place with a ton of people upset and full of negativity, calling reason studios a "shit-show" every 2 posts.

I left the forum for this reason...

I think if I were the forum moderator, I would also try to censor or at least organise all this negativity because I think it was preventing any new users to be willing to stay in the forum...

I survived about 500 posts if I remember well and left without looking behind my shoulder.

only to post on KVR which is infinitely worse

Well you can laugh about it but... No

It was not my experience. My experience is that it was way way worse as the people were genuinely sad and bitter.

Here, we are just a couple of assholes making fun at eachother.

Wow thats crazy how one persons experience can be so different from your own. I've had a general positive experience(there are of course always trolls) over at RT forums. These Forums sometimes feel like solely a complaint board for all DAW's, Developers, and plugins.

I always check this particular sub forum to genuinely see what features people are excited about in whatever DAW but every thread turns into "This Developer hates it users and this DAW has gone downhill". I sometimes just think all DAW's have become so powerful and have so many features we users have ran out of excuses as to why we don't make music.

[Jac459]

I've just come here to say that the 'Reasontalk' forum is run by a guy with an undisclosed business relationship with Reason Studios and has started aggressively censoring most criticism of Reason Studios and the direction of Reason development ahead of the release of version 13.

As a reason user since v1 who's spent thousands on rack extensions I thought my perspective on the situation could be helpful but I can't get past the spam filters here even though there was nothing remotely offensive or spammy about my post. I'm feeling a little censored at the moment.

But yeah, as someone who has personally spent over $10k usd on Reason and will buy 13 the day it comes out I would strongly advise anyone just getting into music production against investing in Reason for reasons it would take a few paragraphs to fully explain.

It has been like that since always. I noticed that anyone saying something negative and even backed up with screenshots is scrubbed. The moderator several times tried to say this was not happening of that it was justified - it wasn't.

There was a thread where someone asked about quality or RS support. I posted there my experience which was quite bad. I had open tickets, unresponded to for 6 months. Then abruptly closed. I reopened, and someone closed. I reported it with screenshots of dates (no info was revealed) - and they deleted the whole thread.

Mind you nothing there was no badmouthing, or calling names. And then I noticed the "#trend" whenever someone posts negatively this guy deletes it.

That forum is more of a Reason Studio product catalog than an actual forum with a completely open discussion.

If posts focus on criticism or make products look bad then they will get scrubbed by the moderator.

The only alternative for you is to open your own forum and let it be free.

Well this isn't the memory I have from the forum. I remember it as a dark dark place with a ton of people upset and full of negativity, calling reason studios a "shit-show" every 2 posts.

I left the forum for this reason...

I think if I were the forum moderator, I would also try to censor or at least organise all this negativity because I think it was preventing any new users to be willing to stay in the forum...

I survived about 500 posts if I remember well and left without looking behind my shoulder.

only to post on KVR which is infinitely worse

Well you can laugh about it but... No

It was not my experience. My experience is that it was way way worse as the people were genuinely sad and bitter.

Here, we are just a couple of assholes making fun at eachother.

Wow thats crazy how one persons experience can be so different from your own. I've had a general positive experience(there are of course always trolls) over at RT forums. These Forums sometimes feel like solely a complaint board for all DAW's, Developers, and plugins.

I always check this particular sub forum to genuinely see what features people are excited about in whatever DAW but every thread turns into "This Developer hates it users and this DAW has gone downhill". I sometimes just think all DAW's have become so powerful and have so many features we users have ran out of excuses as to why we don't make music.

I agree with you hehe. And by the way I was not saying that to trash Reasontalk.
Also, it is largely possible that I was not the same between Reasontalk and KVR.
Reasontalk was my first forum, I was going back to music after a long period of pause (kids), and rediscovering the new version of Reason and I was baffled by the power and the quality. So seeing people in the forum pooing on the developers was shocking for me.

That being said, maybe I am not shocked by KVR because now I know how toxic forums can be.

I don't pretend my experience is a rule for everybody, for sure.

[jjpscott01]

It has been like that since always. I noticed that anyone saying something negative and even backed up with screenshots is scrubbed. The moderator several times tried to say this was not happening of that it was justified - it wasn't.

There was a thread where someone asked about quality or RS support. I posted there my experience which was quite bad. I had open tickets, unresponded to for 6 months. Then abruptly closed. I reopened, and someone closed. I reported it with screenshots of dates (no info was revealed) - and they deleted the whole thread.

Mind you nothing there was no badmouthing, or calling names. And then I noticed the "#trend" whenever someone posts negatively this guy deletes it.

That forum is more of a Reason Studio product catalog than an actual forum with a completely open discussion.

If posts focus on criticism or make products look bad then they will get scrubbed by the moderator.

The only alternative for you is to open your own forum and let it be free.

Well this isn't the memory I have from the forum. I remember it as a dark dark place with a ton of people upset and full of negativity, calling reason studios a "shit-show" every 2 posts.

I left the forum for this reason...

I think if I were the forum moderator, I would also try to censor or at least organise all this negativity because I think it was preventing any new users to be willing to stay in the forum...

I survived about 500 posts if I remember well and left without looking behind my shoulder.

only to post on KVR which is infinitely worse

Well you can laugh about it but... No

It was not my experience. My experience is that it was way way worse as the people were genuinely sad and bitter.

Here, we are just a couple of assholes making fun at eachother.

Wow thats crazy how one persons experience can be so different from your own. I've had a general positive experience(there are of course always trolls) over at RT forums. These Forums sometimes feel like solely a complaint board for all DAW's, Developers, and plugins.

I always check this particular sub forum to genuinely see what features people are excited about in whatever DAW but every thread turns into "This Developer hates it users and this DAW has gone downhill". I sometimes just think all DAW's have become so powerful and have so many features we users have ran out of excuses as to why we don't make music.

I agree with you hehe. And by the way I was not saying that to trash Reasontalk.
Also, it is largely possible that I was not the same between Reasontalk and KVR.
Reasontalk was my first forum, I was going back to music after a long period of pause (kids), and rediscovering the new version of Reason and I was baffled by the power and the quality. So seeing people in the forum pooing on the developers was shocking for me.

That being said, maybe I am not shocked by KVR because now I know how toxic forums can be.

I don't pretend my experience is a rule for everybody, for sure.

I totally agree with you. Its crazy to see how critical everyone is after a major release of pretty much every DAW in forums these days. And it seems like its gotten worse in the last few years since these pieces of software have become so powerful.

I almost wish there was a social experiment where someone could release a DAW that had every single feature known to man just to see how forums all over would react. I imagine we'd hear things like "its so bloated", "god look how cluttered it is", or "its just waaay too busy". Haha. Wed find a way to hate it I'm sure.

Back to Reason 13, Ryan with RS posted a short video this morning on socials saying he'd be going through more details on the new sequencer/editor/browser page improvements in the coming weeks. I think this update when its releases will end up being one of the more popular ones since it directly addresses speed of workflow. It cant get here quick enough for me

[THE INTRANCER]

The Reasontalk community in my experience was tribal, in nature in defending the product that they were using and ousting those who spoke out about Propellerheads, approach, and Reason's lack of development in key areas. The original propellerhead forum, run by the props themselves was more open, and mods, really only interjected when personal attacks were posted. Reasontalk was effectively run by a committee rather than any drawn-up rules. This meant people were at times banned because their opinions flowed against the grain of a few people who took a dislike to certain individuals, which propagated a cultish vibe there that wasn't helped imop, by inexperienced moderators. Things may have become a little more relaxed over the years but it's how I felt that this particular site portrayed and conducted itself whilst I was there.

[hotmitts]

I wondered if the Propellerheads own forum was eventually closed for the same reason, ie. too many negative posts...speculation, but it did feel overbearing at times
They introduced a pay-what-you-want on one update I remember ! Which I think was a response to negativity ?

I have mixed feelings about this update, I hate all the sniping, but I get anxious when I see things added to the subscription model (like Objekt) which I really wanted in the non-subscription updates ...but I don't upgrade every time, just the ones I really want when I can afford.

[Trensharo]

I agree about ReasonTalk.

Most Product-Specific forums (and subreddits) are like this and seem to attract users who want insular communities. In essence, the people there are looking for a circle jerk, not a dialog about the product's deficiencies. All you will get are, basically, "Why are you here?" and WorksForMe™-type responses.

Lots of people there behave like they have Corporate Stockholm Syndrome and are defending a parasocial relationship with developers/companies they don't even know and who generally don't know or care about them.

If people don't like that, they should simply stay away from those places. They're private forums. There is nothing you can do about that, and there is no use butting your head against a brick wall.

Moderator "experience" had nothing to do with it. There is a party line and if you don't toe it, you will eventually be dealt with. Sooner or later. This is no different than what happens in the real world. It just feels worse on a forum because of the power tripping and their ability to ban you for their own reasons and disallow you to defend yourself while doing so.

-----

As for this update, people are overhyping the visual changes. Yes, making the Clip Editor its own pane and putting some of the Tool Window elements alongside it is a Workflow win - undoubtedly - but it is not the big update people are making it out to be. Overall, this update is quite thin, and seems to be hinging mostly on them adding those "reorganization" changes and padding it with fairly redundant rack extensions.

For the people who use Reason as a Rack Plug-in, there is practically nothing in this update for them.

If the upgrade price is $199, there is no way I could justify paying that price for this upgrade. I'd rather upgrade my copy of Samplitude Pro X Suite for $249, instead. At least there I'll get a SpectraLayers Pro 10 serial that I can wait to register to get a free upgrade from Steinberg when the next version of that releases.

[jjpscott01]

People being excited about the visual changes don't mean they're overhyping them. If it's a feature you've been wanting for a long time in a software you love, then it's an exciting update. If it's not, then yeah, I guess it's not worth the "hype". The update being "thin" is completely subjective. To me and many others, this is the update we've been wanting for many years since its an overall workflow/speed improvement. I can understand why RRP users wouldn't have much to be excited about but this version is clearly a "DAW" upgrade which is what many of us wanted.

[Trensharo]

People being excited about the visual changes don't mean they're overhyping them. If it's a feature you've been wanting for a long time in a software you love, then it's an exciting update. If it's not, then yeah, I guess it's not worth the "hype". The update being "thin" is completely subjective. To me and many others, this is the update we've been wanting for many years since its an overall workflow/speed improvement. I can understand why RRP users wouldn't have much to be excited about but this version is clearly a "DAW" upgrade which is what many of us wanted.

I'm referring to what I am seeing in various places on the internet, not just this thread. Here, Reddit (there are two subreddits for Reason), YouTube and other forums.

Unfortunately, they didn't "upgrade" anything in the DAW. They just rearranged a few things.

Well, the browser. I keep forgetting about the browser. You're right. That was upgraded.

When I think upgrade, I'm thinking more along the lines of... Video Support, MPE Support and things like that.

Not adding a panel for the clip editor and adding some tool window things next to it. That is more of a UI reorganization. Upgrades add functionality, not just change the location of it. That doesn't mean UI tweaks aren't improvements, though, in the literal sense.

It improves the user experience. It doesn't upgrade the application's capabilities.

I cannot relate to loving software, so I will always have that disconnect. I'm just not built that way.

[Jac459]

.......but this version is clearly a "DAW" upgrade which is what many of us wanted.

Yep. I am part of the losing side. I would have loved the RRP evolve with MPE or CLAP support for example.
Or a lite reason that would allow people to use the Rack Extensions without paying a DAW price just to access.

But it is ok, if DAW users can finally get a version they love and if it can bring money to RS, it is still positive.

[jjpscott01]

I guess the rest of us who are "built" to love software are just excited about the new features that improve the overall user experience. With DAW's as feature rich as they are these days i'd argue that user experience is maybe THE most important feature for a lot of us.

[gentleclockdivider]

Cutting edge ?
That was exactly the moment went everyhing went downhill ---> the release of record .
No midi output , and you had to have reason to use it's instruments in side record , Needless to say , Record was a flop .and thus integrated in in reason 6.0 ( + rack extensions )
Propllerheads have been behind the curve for a verry loong time

You have no clue what you're talking about. It didn't go downhill when record was released, that was the beginning of integrating audio recording into Reason in the following versions. And that started their rapid growth as everyone started taking notice and accepting it as a full fledged DAW. They were so profitable they were able to design and release their own audio interface, before everyone and their mom did. It's sad when people try to blur history just to make a point.

I've been On and OFF reason since it's verry first release and know it's history perfectly well , always used it as a sketchpad
Reason always had a hardcore fanbase , but only since vst's were accepeted people outside the reason bubble started making notice ( too late but still )
Ohh yeah , the audio interface was also a flop

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