Reason 13 Announced- Sequencer updated!

[v1o]

Cutting edge ?
That was exactly the moment went everyhing went downhill ---> the release of record .
No midi output , and you had to have reason to use it's instruments in side record , Needless to say , Record was a flop .and thus integrated in in reason 6.0 ( + rack extensions )
Propllerheads have been behind the curve for a verry loong time

You have no clue what you're talking about. It didn't go downhill when record was released, that was the beginning of integrating audio recording into Reason in the following versions. And that started their rapid growth as everyone started taking notice and accepting it as a full fledged DAW. They were so profitable they were able to design and release their own audio interface, before everyone and their mom did. It's sad when people try to blur history just to make a point.

Contrary to popular belief, their sales growth wasn't rapid during this period. In fact, it was around this time that they were swiftly surpassed by Ableton Live in terms of both market share and mindshare, with Ableton Live gaining a significant lead. The decline can be attributed to the fact that, while Reason was at the forefront of technological advancements when it was first introduced in 2000, it was eventually outpaced by newer software such as Live and Studio One.

Prior to the release of Reason 6.0, Ableton Live wasn't taken very seriously as a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW). Because it was originally conceived as a software program for live shows and performances. Robert Henke, one of Ableton's co-founders, was still using Pro Tools for mixing while composing in Live.

Reason wasn't particularly early in introducing an audio interface to the market either. Pro Tools, for instance, had already been using Digidesign audio interfaces for several years. Similarly, Steinberg (Cubase) and Emagic (Logic Pro) had released their own interfaces many years prior to the Balance Audio interface. And I think Balance was not commercially viable which is why they never expanded their range of audio interfaces or produced a follow-up.

[Trensharo]

Yea, the focus was mostly on adding Rack Extensions because ReWire was much bigger back then, particularly because the VST Instrument market was quite novel. I think as that market matured, it significantly cut into Reason's value proposition. DAWs bundling increasing amounts of plug-ins and virtual instruments also didn't help.

I think they were simply too slow to pivot. They really needed to introduce VST Support Quicker and pivot to improving the DAW as a production platform at a better pace. Rack Extensions are nice, but they didn't really offer a lot of value proposition since people could simply buy Virtual Instruments and use directly in the DAW, vs. using Reason with ReWire.

It's a similar issue to Pro Tools, which didn't improve its production feature set and found itself on the periphery once the market got to the point where most of the growth space shifted to the production market (vs. the Studio and Professional Engineering/Postproduction market segments). They've only recently pivoted towards prioritizing some feature development for that market segment.

Propellerhead just failed to read the room, IMO.

Multiple DAWs are now stuck scrambling to find a way to pivot and position themselves such that they are seen as higher value alternatives to the more... "dominant options." (Avid, MAGIX, Reason, Tracktion, etc.).

Also, people seem more willing to flock to new entrants into the market than double back to "legacy options," which is why DAWs like Studio One and Bitwig have blown up to fast, while Avid, MAGIX and Reason Studios struggle to get people to double back and give them another chance.

In the software market, it's really important to be agile and responsive to market demands, because users tend to be fickle and you can be left with skeleton crew user base with the quickness... and it's REALLY difficult to recover those losses. It also comes with a dose of reputational damage, in the internet age (disenchanted users are more likely to spread their word than satisfied users).

[v1o]

I guess I'm the only person annoyed by the lack of AI features in R13 such as: stem separation, polyphonic pitch correction, AI de-noising, and AI patch generation (like Synplant). I guess I might be one of the few who actually enjoy using AI tools.

[vertibration]

Serato Sampler does a great job, better than DAWs that have stem separation imo...so theres that

[gentleclockdivider]

Cutting edge ?
That was exactly the moment went everyhing went downhill ---> the release of record .
No midi output , and you had to have reason to use it's instruments in side record , Needless to say , Record was a flop .and thus integrated in in reason 6.0 ( + rack extensions )
Propllerheads have been behind the curve for a verry loong time

You have no clue what you're talking about. It didn't go downhill when record was released, that was the beginning of integrating audio recording into Reason in the following versions. And that started their rapid growth as everyone started taking notice and accepting it as a full fledged DAW. They were so profitable they were able to design and release their own audio interface, before everyone and their mom did. It's sad when people try to blur history just to make a point.

Contrary to popular belief, their sales growth wasn't rapid during this period. In fact, it was around this time that they were swiftly surpassed by Ableton Live in terms of both market share and mindshare, with Ableton Live gaining a significant lead. The decline can be attributed to the fact that, while Reason was at the forefront of technological advancements when it was first introduced in 2000, it was eventually outpaced by newer software such as Live and Studio One.

Prior to the release of Reason 6.0, Ableton Live wasn't taken very seriously as a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW). Because it was originally conceived as a software program for live shows and performances. Robert Henke, one of Ableton's co-founders, was still using Pro Tools for mixing while composing in Live.

Reason wasn't particularly early in introducing an audio interface to the market either. Pro Tools, for instance, had already been using Digidesign audio interfaces for several years. Similarly, Steinberg (Cubase) and Emagic (Logic Pro) had released their own interfaces many years prior to the Balance Audio interface. And I think Balance was not commercially viable which is why they never expanded their range of audio interfaces or produced a follow-up.

Eeerie will accuse of you rewriting history

[Trensharo]

AI DeNoising, etc. is something they could give by simply adding ARA2 support so users can utilize SpectraLayers Pro as an ARA2 process in Reason. Same with Polyphonic Pitch Correction, which is a pretty tall ask.

Stem Separation in Mimic, at least, would be nice.

I wonder what kind of Development Team Reason Studios has to enable them to develop such features and have them be competitive with what's available on the market.

Using Serato for stem separation is weird unless you were going to drag it into Serato to sample it there, anyways.

[Trensharo]

Serato Sampler does a great job, better than DAWs that have stem separation imo...so theres that

There is also RX Music Rebalance, SpectraLayers Pro 10, and other stuff.

ARA2 could allow one to use this in DAW via SpectraLayers (also for AI DeNoise, etc.). Same with Melodyne for Poly Pitch Correction.

All of those products cost a pretty penny, though.

Serato Sample is $160 or $10/mo.

Anyone who cares about audio Restoration should at least have RX Standard or SpectraLayers Pro in their stable, so you can simply separate there and then bring the stems into Reason as a last ditch option.

[Karbon L. Forms]

I see some reminiscing about Reason when it was self-contained. I find the self-contained idea quite attractive.

I remember reading about Reason way back. It was hideously expensive (to me, at the time) but I was curious and didn't really "get it" as it didn't seem to be used for released works.

Until I read an interview with Liam Howlett of The Prodigy where he described using Reason on-the-road/travelling to knock out ideas/demos that he would later fully realise when he got home to his actual studio with "real" gear.

I loved that concept and still do. These days we have Live Suite/Bitwig/FLStudio etc that have enough built in stuff that they could count as self-contained even if you don't use plugins, and obviously the quality is higher than old reason...

But they somehow don't feel the same as the gnarly hardware analogue that Reason was.

Not sure if I wish it was 2002 again or that Reason had stayed self-contained! lol

[Zikax]

I'm glad we're finally getting a new browser. The old one is ok, you can work with it, but it kills my workflow when I look for sounds. There are always so many unnecessary steps. Now you open the browser, you type piano and immediately you have every presets.

[jjpscott01]

Yeah the new browser will be nice. Based on those pics posted earlier I think I'm going to love that new edit window too. Its my preferred way of working with midi and audio data. I also like that they have removed those rack posts for Rack/sequencer/mixer since they took up un-needed real estate at the top of the sequencer. That really cleans up the main window when arranging.

[D-Fusion]

Yeah the new browser will be nice. Based on those pics posted earlier I think I'm going to love that new edit window too. Its my preferred way of working with midi and audio data. I also like that they have removed those rack posts for Rack/sequencer/mixer since they took up un-needed real estate at the top of the sequencer. That really cleans up the main window when arranging.

I agree.
It Seems to offer more than a .5 update which was my first thought on this update So i will upgrade in June when it is ready

[jlgrimes11]

Cutting edge ?
That was exactly the moment went everyhing went downhill ---> the release of record .
No midi output , and you had to have reason to use it's instruments in side record , Needless to say , Record was a flop .and thus integrated in in reason 6.0 ( + rack extensions )
Propllerheads have been behind the curve for a verry loong time

You have no clue what you're talking about. It didn't go downhill when record was released, that was the beginning of integrating audio recording into Reason in the following versions. And that started their rapid growth as everyone started taking notice and accepting it as a full fledged DAW. They were so profitable they were able to design and release their own audio interface, before everyone and their mom did. It's sad when people try to blur history just to make a point.

Great post. Probably you are correct also.

I think it went downhill with the introduction to be able to use vst. Then people started looking - this vst sounds really good. And this too. And this! Then they started exploring other daws, because the DAW of Reason was maybe a bit lacking? I am just speculating here. Nah. They should have stopped with RE. They really had something going i think. Then they should have gone all out on improving the DAW. Anyway.....

This is the problem with being a DAW software company. For over 10 years, all I heard was the whole world screaming that if Reason just had VST capability it would rule. Then they introduce VST and everyone wines about not having VST3. Then they refine and release VST3 capability(all while doing a complete graphical overhaul I might add) and people say it was better as a closed system.
I myself agree with you and never wanted VST support personally but im just saying being a modern day DAW company would make me pull my hair out.

There was a great many users who didn't want VST support. it might have felt 50/50.

Many wanted reason to focus on core DAW/Sequencer improvements.

I think when Reason went Record it added a bunch of complexity to Reason and probably should have gotten fine tuned more.

Audio Recording was a good thing I think.. The mixer though at first to me seemed cool but I found it cumbersome in practice. While yes it's leaps and bounds better than the 14:2, but compared to a stock DAW mixer, I found it too busy. Just my opinion though as many people love it but to me I feel this is when I noticed most of Reason's clunky workflow issues while before that, I tended to view Reason as having a fast workflow for what it was designed for. I think the expectation was with Record Reason was a full fledged DAW but it was still lacking in alot of places.

[jjpscott01]

This is precisely why I think this version 13 update is so needed is that it focuses on speeding up the workflow within the DAW itself. I have always preferred working inside of Reason rather than using it as a plugin in another DAW. The only thing I thought Reason needed was a couple little tweak's to the arrangement window and the way we edit audio and midi and those have all been address with this update. The browser update will only speed that workflow up even more so this upgrade is a no brainer for me.

[SebAV]

Audio Recording was a good thing I think.. The mixer though at first to me seemed cool but I found it cumbersome in practice. While yes it's leaps and bounds better than the 14:2, but compared to a stock DAW mixer, I found it too busy. Just my opinion though as many people love it but to me I feel this is when I noticed most of Reason's clunky workflow issues while before that, I tended to view Reason as having a fast workflow for what it was designed for. I think the expectation was with Record Reason was a full fledged DAW but it was still lacking in alot of places.

I think the mixer in Record and then in Reason is an illustration of the Propellerhead megalomania. It was good at their beginnings since they had some of the best actually working studio software.
But they lost their magic and went arrogant.
I much prefer using the RRP inside Live, it reminds me of the simplicity of Reason while being powerful enough (just automation and remote control is far from what you have within the standalone version)

[liquidsound]

He’s not so happy…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6hIaTW ... Vhc29uIDEz